Work refusing to let me leave

[Summerreid]

This has happened twice now where I have needed to leave during the day and work have refused, saying there is no one available to cover (secondary school teacher.) Just wondering if anybody knows what my legal position is.

I'm nhs OP and we have loads of family friendly policies. The problem is a lot of them are at the discretion of your manager which leads to inequalities depending on the dept.

Are a lot of your policies at your manager's discretion?

@Viviennemary there is no backup childcare. My parents are both dead and have been for some time; DHs live over an hour away and are often abroad anyway. We have local friends - who are at work during the day.

Does your school not have an organised system for cover, with cover supervisors or a rota of free teachers? When I was teaching, we had a system where you would be 1st, 2nd or 3rd in line for possible unexpected cover in your free lessons. If a teacher had to unexpectedly leave as per your situation, then the next person in the cover list would be called in to cover. When the school had the budget for employing cover supervisors, they were the 1st in line if not already covering.

I'd be speaking to your union op. Obviously you can't be waltzing out over just any old thing but a blanket ban on everything sounds contrary to policy and if that's the case, your union will be better placed to advise.

I was the child whose teacher parent never came to get me - or attend medical appts or anything else as she was very devoted to her job. Teachers are as human as the rest of us. I hope your union rep can help op

Unfortunately, the unions don't seem to be able to do much. If you're lucky, the HT will grant special leave, if you're very lucky they won't do it in an arsey way! These Academy Trusts are so powerful.
Every teacher has a horror story, but the worst one I heard was when a woman was contacted to say her mother was dying, so she asked to leave, and the headteacher asked if she could stay until the end of the day!

It sounds like you have a bully as a head OP. It's sadly quite a common problem I think.

@Summerreid I am a school governor but can only advise based on our policies.

Our policy asks that parents make all reasonable attempts to have someone else collect a sick child but should that be fruitless we would never stop a teacher leaving.

I guess the issue is whether you have made reasonable attempts to find someone else like their dad, a neighbour, family friend, aunty/uncle etc. If no one is available then they should not refuse you leaving.

Ultimately relentless budget cuts means that schools simply don't have spare staff floating about to offer cover and cannot afford the high fees associated with emergency supply cover.

As a 6th form student and during university holidays I was often contact by my old secondary school to cover in emergencies (was training to be a teacher and as a childcare worker was CRB checked from being 16) and this was over 20 years ago. The situation has only got worse.

@Summerreid as awful as it sounds you do need to look at a plan for these situations. I know that isn't what you are asking about here but it is something you need to think about it.

What does your DH think about it?

Is he willing to pay for a childminder or someone to pick up your child from school when ill?

Sometimes parents literally can't leave. In the middle of a long surgery, etc. They'd isolate the child and have them lie down. There's always going to be sick children in preschool.

So yes, I think you're being a bit unreasonable expecting to leave whenever your child has a cold, vomit, etc.

Not really, there's something now called Rarely Cover, special circumstances only. If it's Secondary the exam groups have gone, so it shouldn't be that difficult.
Honestly, some SLTs act like you're malingering if you miss one lesson in 25 years.

Who is saying no? The head or another member of SLT?

Do you /other staff approach them with a plan (I'm doing this lesson, and have prepared everything needed for the other ones,here are the plans etc) or just say you need to go? Is there possible cover available and if so, can you try and arrange before you talk to them?

Make an appointment with the headteacher to discuss your concerns.

it has its faults but my department are a lovely lot,

This was like my old school.
My department was lovely and I could have stayed there with them forever but the head and deputy head were awful.

It is a challenge as you can't leave children unattended in a classroom at school. We used to have a cot in the office and sick kids who couldn't get picked up right away slept there. You need someone on back up, a neighbour, SAHP friend, someone for emergencies. What if they couldn't get ahold of you? What kind of job does DH have?

@madasawethen , my children are not school age. Childminders do not take vomiting children. Also, I didn’t post in AIBU.

sounds really tough op

I'm a registered Childminder so hopefully my response will be helpful to you. As a Childminder I ask for an emergency contact for all mindees and am unable to take children on without that. That's a personal decision but based on the fact that I have my own children and if they're suddenly ill then I need to close and so need to make sure that children can be collected quickly. I know from my Childminder network that I'm not unique in this, in fact LA's insist on emergency contacts during early years training.

The EYFS states that childcare professionals have a duty to minimise the spread of infection, which means promptly arranging collection of unwell children. It is not reasonable for anyone to expect childcare providers to hold onto children who are unwell. Through my network, I know of many people who have terminated contracts due to non collection of unwell children.

You need a plan to make sure that you can do this. Do you have an emergency person who can help? This is your first port of call. If you don't then you need to explain this to school now and ask them if this will be a problem. By law you are entitled to "time off for dependents" (as referenced above). Knowing a couple of handfuls of teachers and TA's locally I know that local schools do a great job at facilitating this. However, I also know how stressed they get trying to arrange cover by various family members when their child is ill. This is the fundamental issue of all working parents though and is a big part of the decision making process when deciding what hours you work or what sort of job you do. If you're a lone parent with no support network, perhaps supply teaching may be better for you?

Ultimately I think you need a separate conversation with work.

take heart that sickness will improve

Worst case scenario would be that they could fire you with immediate effect due to gross misconduct. If this is the case, your only recourse would to take them to an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal if you felt that you had a genuine reason for leaving. Ask your union via email if this would be the case and if they would support you in these circumstances.

All of those things are 'at the heads discretion ', there is no legal reason for them to let you go. Most schools (in my experience) are reasonable and will let you go unless you take the piss (e.g. we had a member of staff that was always the one going to pick the children up when they were sick because he still got paid and his wife didn't which school took a dim view of). Next time I'd try and arrange cover internally and go to them with a solution rather than a problem (I appreciate that's not necessarily the way it should be done but it might make them more biddable).

I am honestly shocked by the replies on here. If this is the view that parents and the public have of teachers, its obvious why there is such a huge recruitment and retention crisis!

I am glad others have posted links to ACAS and government websites. It seems they are very much in your favour for the situation you described and if you were to walk out, they would not be able to discipline without leaving themselves open to a lawsuit.

Are you secondary, OP?

I'm surprised at the majority of posts on here. I was a teacher (though not in a secondary school) and yes, if people got a call about a sick child, they were allowed to leave.
The HT didn't like it happening, but as was pointed out to her on several occasions, when our pupils were ill enough to need to go home, she expected a parent to turn up pretty damn quick, and would moan if they didn't, even if they were in jobs where it wasn't easy to leave, or a long commute away. So she could hardly insist that her own staff couldn't pick up from their kids' schools.

there is no legal reason for them to let you go.

except there is 😐

So on the one hand we have a shortage of teachers but on the other, we think it completely unreasonable that someone would become a teacher, dare to have kids, who in turn dare to be ill, without having several layers of back-up in place for the 18 years of their childrens' lives?

I bet it's not like this in other countries. I bet teachers are treated with common sense and schools have funding for sensible cover arrangements.

You can't have it both ways, people. As with so many public services.

The replies on here are laughable. Don't have friends who can babysit when your kid gets norovirus? Then you can't be a teacher 🤣 Can't afford to have a childminder on call? Then you can't be a teacher. There is already a teacher shortage.

My school recognises that most of us work 50+ hours a week so whenever we need to leave due to dependents being ill, SLT are very accommodating and staff will swap PPA/take extra kids in their class.