Work refusing to let me leave

[Summerreid]

This has happened twice now where I have needed to leave during the day and work have refused, saying there is no one available to cover (secondary school teacher.) Just wondering if anybody knows what my legal position is.

I think by law you can leave but if you do then don't expect to be paid! Depends on your school policy and if you leave when they have said you can't I don't think the headteachers discretion is going to go your way.
As a teacher (whose DH worked a commute away when children were little) I have always had a back up plan - I had a SAHP who supported me while I did loads of afterschool and holiday activities with her children. I don't think I asked her once to pick up a sick child. I always found my colleagues amazingly flexible and supportive if necessary and I reciprocated too.
However, there is always one or two colleagues who take the mickey and need support/cover every blooming week. Not sure if you are one of those or not OP.
But, while others on here say that teaching is NOT child friendly in term time, I really have to disagree - it is one of the few professions that can be managed to support having small children and it is one of the few workplaces I know where colleagues are very understanding.

Well, the unions just say similar to the links above re time off for dependents and thank you for that but that’s not quite what I was meaning.

If I rang tomorrow morning and said that I couldn’t come in as my child was unwell, I’m sure they wouldn’t be thrilled about it but there would be no question of me being made to go in. However, if I went in, taught the first period and then had a phone call from nursery to say my DD had been sick, I wouldn’t be able to get out.

In my particular case this has meant I’ve not been able to collect an unwell child from nursery but that isn’t the only example. My colleagues have also been similarly treated - one got a phone call to say her dad had died and they wouldn’t let her leave, and another fainted when teaching and got the ‘no cover available’ line. It would be helpful to know what the stance is as of course no one wants to risk a disciplinary.

The week before half term, DH's school had to close on the Tuesday because two people called in sick and there was literally not a single warm body to put in to cover. There is a dire shortage of school staff at the moment.

I’d also like to thank the posters who noticed the combative replies and have pointed out they are misplaced and really rather unpleasant.

@Summerreid Hi OP. The legal position can be found at section 57A and 57B of the Employment Rights Act 1996. @LovinglifeAF has helpfully included the relevant section in her post.

As stated in the legislation, if your employer refuses you reasonable time off to care for ill dependents then strictly speaking you can bring a claim in the employment tribunal within 3 months.

There is obviously more nuance to such circumstances and the specific facts would need to be considered before making a claim, but this is the (very) general position.

I hope you manage to resolve things with work :)

Tbh OP you need to raise this through your union - as in you need to raise the fact that you "weren't allowed to leave" when you needed to.

If it happens again I'd probably tell them I was leaving in a specified time period (say an hour) to give them time to organise cover instead of asking permission. But I'd only do that after speaking to my union and them agreeing it would be considered 'reasonable".

For what it's worth cover is always available in schools, normally some member of SLT will be free but won't want to give up the time. Even in my kids school (2 class primary- it's truly tiny) they'd merge classes/get someone in. I've been responsible for arranging cover before and unless you're in the middle of nowhere then an hour is reasonable to phone an agency and get supply in.

Speak to your union rep. I have friends in teaching and there’s always someone to do emergency cover and they themselves have been used for emergency cover for occasions like this. They may not pay you for this emergency dependency leave but they can’t say no.

The unions aren’t always very helpful to be honest - I realise they are portrayed as fairly militant in the press, but they really aren’t.

Surely if as per the link you're legally allowed time off for dependents, then you're legally allowed time off for dependents, and school aren't legally able to.refuse you. So they have no legal recourse. They can of course then be total dicks til you decide to leave, but if they're that short on staff id say that's unlikely.

I’ve not RTFT as I’m sure you’ve had multiple people telling you you’re in the wrong for wanting to leave work to collect a sick child just because you’re a teacher.
I personally wouldn’t have disclosed my profession to get unbiased views.

I don’t know about the legal side but most places of work would go out of their way to accommodate you.

I work in an ARB. A few weeks ago it was lunchtime and I got a phone call from my DDs school to say she had been sick.
Some of the staff overheard and literally grabbed my handbag and coat and passed them to me as I was putting the phone down.
I started explaining that my DD had been sick but they didn’t even let me finish, they said not to worry about it and don’t worry about cover work etc as they’ll sort it out and to go and get her and they hope she’s ok.
It makes me so angry when I hear about places like yours.

I know it’s hard when there physically isn’t enough cover staff but it’s not fair that an entire school could potentially get ill because your child is sick and has to stay in school because you’re not allowed to leave.
And it’s not fair on you or your child either.

I personally would have walked out.
If this has happened twice now Id seriously be considering leaving.

They cannot prevent you leaving without committing physical assault or unlawful imprisonment.

As in if you walk out the door the only way they can prevent you from leaving is to either physically restrain you or lock you in.

You CAN leave, it's just mental manipulation to make you stay.

Some of the responses on this thread are shocking. I am a teacher and thankfully my school is accommodating in these scenarios. It's really not that hard. Colleagues who have some planning time are happy to assist and cover on occasions where someone has to leave and collect an ill child. And thank goodness they do- my husband's work are happy for him to do half of such situations but expect me to do my share too. We live away from family and wouldn't want to subject friends, who are working too, to a contagious illness. I imagine this is life for many. If I were prohibited from being a teacher because once or twice a year I had to collect a sick child then it would be a shame. Furthermore, the vast majority of teachers work all hours and in increasingly challenging conditions. If the school cannot afford them the benefit of leaving to collect a poorly child then it is, frankly, no wonder the education system is falling to pieces and no one wants to do the job. I certainly wouldn't be willing to do the many things I do above and beyond my job if my school valued me so little.

I know, but if I hadn’t explained my profession everyone would have told me to take annual leave, etc.!

What is really irritating is that they don’t even bother checking to see if there are any cover staff, as when my colleagues dad passed away I was actually free. Of course, no one wants to lose a free but it happens - especially in emergencies like that. It’s really frustrating.

I'm surprised as to people's reactions here as a teacher who has had to leave during the day. If the nursery call and say my son is sick and needs collecting I can't just leave him there...

However, if I went in, taught the first period and then had a phone call from nursery to say my DD had been sick, I wouldn’t be able to get out.

If you read the link you'll see you don't have to tell them before you leave, just as soon as you can. Obviously walking out of lesson without informing anyone would be inappropriate.

This is also from that website:
Your employer must not:
• treat you unfairly for taking time off, for example refusing you training or promotion
• dismiss you or choose you for redundancy because you asked for time off for a dependant
• refuse you reasonable time off
If you think you’ve been unfairly treated for taking time off for dependants, get advice from your staff or trade union representative or Acas.

@EBathory - I really meant with regards to a disciplinary or similar. If I did decide to leave in the future I wouldn’t want that hanging over me!

@pizza1234 - just some goady fuckers, to put it bluntly! I employ my own mental ‘ignore poster’ button on threads like this and just focus on the helpful replies.

I have seen other posters on other threads say that if you do go against the SLT they'll give you shit classes/timetables etc for next year but while your children are young especially it's so hard

Hi OP!

Im glad you’ve been given the links to acas and gov.Uk. As others have said, check the school absence policy and consider union support. You can leave in emergencies but you might not be paid and you will be unpopular with your boss. If they tried to go down a disciplinary route, contact the union - I suspect they would be very helpful.

This is why so many people feign sickness themselves when their kids are ill.

You've been given a really hard time on this thread OP. Wrongly in my book. Of course you shouldn’t have to quit your career because you are a mum and if your SLT imply you should, it’s discriminatory.

I think your SLT are unsupportive and shit. Of course it’s inconvenient but your lessons are planned and a member of SLT should cover. It’s terrible continuity to “have no cover” and it’s not actually try. They just don’t want to cover.

Do you like the school? You might find another more supportive.

I'm a teacher. You need to find a new school. This would simply not happen where I work. The Dad dying example is appalling. SLT would just take your lesson.

As the links say you have a legal right to the time off so no fear of disciplinary.

Next time inform and leave without worry

I don't have children but when working did try to back up for the parents who had to leave work because of an ill child, because I recognised it must be a nightmare if you aren't lucky enough to have a support system to pick up in these situations. It isn't easy, especially for lone parents.

Secondary teacher here. At my school it would depend on the current cover situation: if staff absence was at a manageable level it would be dealt with centrally by the cover team. If things were tight (like today - so many staff off with Covid again) the issue would be batted back to the head of dept and cover within the dept would need to be arranged either by someone giving up a free or collapsing classes.
That’s why I like working in a large, well-run school - we have the scope and systems in place to deal with whatever’s thrown at us. It sounds like your school just isn’t geared towards supporting and retaining staff. I’d be looking elsewhere if I were you as that’s a difficult culture to change.

Weirdly, I do quite like the school - it has its faults but my department are a lovely lot, it’s super convenient location wise and I’m part time and advertised PT posts are like hens teeth. But they can be fairly notorious arseholes over things like this.

In the circumstances you describe there is no justification for them to tell you to stay. Where I work if there was no one available and it was an emergency we would double up a class or use a member of support staff. In the times this has happened to me I have judged it based on urgency. Ds in hospital after a seizure I left immediately. I informed SLT and I was gone in 5 mins. Dd in a and e after allergic reaction - twenty mins to get someone in the room and I was off. A child who is a bit unwell once had to wait an hour until I could finish lesson and organise cover for next. I have never been refused cover for a sick child or indeed if I have felt unwell myself. You have a shit SLT OP. I am sorry. You need to look elsewhere.

You need to raise this with your union. That is what the consequences would be if you just left to collect your sick child. But you should get back up child care in place.