Work refusing to let me leave

[Summerreid]

This has happened twice now where I have needed to leave during the day and work have refused, saying there is no one available to cover (secondary school teacher.) Just wondering if anybody knows what my legal position is.

Emergency contact would be PIL, @MaverickSnoopy , but it would take them two hours to get to DC assuming they are in the country at the time.

I mean, emergency contact is just that isn’t it - it’s there if you can’t contact a parent.

Section 57a of the employment rights act must apply surely

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/section/57A

it doesn’t say teachers are exempt
from this right

Excellent points, @riesenrad
Honestly, some schools are run with zero flexibility and care for staff.

I’m not sure what you’re meaning then? I don’t think it can be any clearer than the legislation and links that have been posted. That is the legal position - if a dependant falls ill or there is an unexpected childcare emergency you’re entitled to leave work.

I haven't read all the thread so I apologise if I am repeating...
Perhaps you could do an 'unofficial' cover amongst your department or friends eg 'I have to go and get my poorly child and X has said she will cover'
Thus taking the wind out of their sales.

It's unacceptable to not have cover supervisors but I swear most schools go about employing them the wrong way. I am a teacher and the school I worked out employed people looking to GTP or GRTP and it also sorted the wheat from the chaff where teacher training was concerned. Cover was seen as a taster to teaching.

My partners school has awful cover and is always scrabbling in the morning. People take the day off just in case as they know cover is tight. He was due to present a guest speaker to his new sixth formers Today and was taken for cover.

It's not ok.

Depending where OP is, they've got no chance. there are so many processes.

Sorry, just realised you answered this in the OP.

The cover is the responsibility of the relevant DHT, unless you are in a private school. Not you. If there are issues with your absences, that's on the council.

Just MN at it's finest. People are honestly batshit

The council have no say. The employers will, it'll be an Academy Trust.

You're entirely within your rights to tell SLT that you have to leave and then leave immediately - there may be a practical thing you have to do like wait for a (very) short period for someone to turn up - but if that doesn't happen within 20 minutes then at some point you're just going to HAVE to leave

I have no idea why you're getting such stupid responses

Yes, they may attempt to discipline you - so? You still had to leave

Lots of people in non teaching positions seem to know how schools work on here!

It's absolutely your right to leave in the event of an emergency. Your kids being ill is included in that. Rarely cover doesn't cover periods that happen that's not pre arranged therefore any teacher who is free at the time can cover your lesson(s) and your schools admin team should be able to organise this. In an event of having to leave suddenly your department should supply the cover work.

It's not your role to find someone to cover you. Does your school employ cover supervisors?

I would say get in touch with your union but it might only make it worse.

You have rights they can't keep you there.

My colleague had this- you have an amount of parental duty time but the head told her that childcare was her concern and she had to make sure she had cover. We’ve all had that emergency and been taken ill etc and emergency cover is needed. Authorised absence is different - I think medical are ok, funerals at the heads discretion . Check your schools policy.

@Summerreid well your mistake was to say you're a teacher folks are polarised about some professions unfortunately.

I would phone ACAS they're always knowledgeable and helpful.

Being a parent is not a protected characteristic, speaking as a union rep, so I can understand them being reluctant to let you go. However, most schools will try their best to sort cover in emergencies. I have never known a school refuse a parent picking up a sick child. Who did you ask? I know my line manager would tell me just to go and she’d sort it.

Not allowing someone to leave when a parent has died or she has fainted is disgusting and I would request a meeting with the union rep to complain in very strong terms. If that doesn’t shake up management (is that who refused?) then get the branch rep in. Go onto neu.org.U.K. if that’s your/your colleague’s union.

OP, you have my sympathies, I think a lot of posters on here have family on tap, don't have children or have forgotten how ill nursery children get. It's the only reason I have stayed in a job I don't love with no prospects - it's flexible.

I can't comment on the legalities.

There is one further option for ill children - emergency nannies. They are not cheap, especially as the quickest way to source them is via agencies but it may be worth starting to try and build up a few contacts.

This thread is so nasty. A few things.

• There is a major shortage of teachers already (one of the reasons why there is no cover!). So no, we shouldn't be closing the profession to parents of young children just in case they have to go pick them up a couple of times a year.

• Yes, employment rights do, in fact, apply to teachers too, contrary to popular mumsnet opinion. OP - I think someone has linked it already, you are entitled to emergency time off if a dependent falls ill.

• On a practical note, could you and other teachers with young children make an agreement between yourselves to cover for each other in these circumstances if it falls in your PPA? I was working in independent sector when my DD was a baby and getting sick more often so I could leave because the expectation there was we covered each other (flipside is I did 2 or 3 cover lessons every week on top of a full timetable - and no, before anyone says it, it wasn't a lighter timetable than state, we just lost all our PPA time).

• What do your school do when a kid needs collecting because they are sick? I bet they don't happily hang on to them, no problem, because mum teaches down the road and they cant cover.

• All those people saying 'NHS workers can't leave' that entirely depends. I have a friend who is a GP who both can and does leave (or doesnt go in) when her kids are sick. And it is always her, not her DH because he is a teacher and it is easier for her, she just cancels all her appointments. She also gets full pay and seems to have limitless days, although I guess there must be a limit somewhere.

• All these people talking about emergency childcare for vomiting children, what is this please? Because as a teacher I have looked very hard and it really doesn't seem to exist.

I remember being asked at an interview for a teaching job, what arrangements I had in place for my young children. Those were the days.
Oh, and in my early 20s, at a different teaching interview, I was asked if I was planning on starting a family.

Incidentally I got both those jobs, and in each case the HT was really good about absence for family stuff. And when I got pregnant while employed at the school that asked about me starting a family, the HT was the most excited of all my colleagues!

This is so frustrating! Your issue is covered by rarely cover which is part of the burgundy book. You absolutely have the right to leave immediately in an event of an emergency which covers collecting your sick child.

In that instance because it's not a pre planned cover the school can cover with any teacher who is free at that time. (Teachers aren't supposed to cover pre planned cover).

Your school is not covering government guidelines. Speak to HR and union.

Please ignore those who have zero clue!

I don't think a two hour wait to collect a sick child is awful, to be honest?

My parents both worked in a hospital and all our family were abroad so I often had to sit in the sick bay/nurses office for several hours waiting for them to collect me if I was sick or unwell - I mean, neither of them could just walk off from patients to come and collect me!

It wasn't ideal but isn't that the reality for working parents?

So in your scenario I would say that PIL should be called upon to come and help and you only need to leave if they're out of the country or it's a genuine emergency like a hospital admission.

Your school does seem rather inflexible. I work in a secondary school and there have been times I've had to leave to collect an ill child, and have left straight away, as soon as cover is arranged.

I haven't read all the responses so apologies if this is now out of date.

I'm a secondary teacher (in Scotland, not England, if that's relevant) and I would be able to leave at any time if i got a call like that. Our SLT would insist actually, and would cover it themselves if we had no cover. They would do the same to allow us to attend the sports day of our children too. I genuinely cannot imagine a time where they'd refuse, and as such no-one takes the piss.

I don't teach on a Tues or Thurs afternoon and, as long as I'm not needed for cover, I'm fine to leave early / work from home. They recognise the work I do in my own time and grant lots of professional trust and autonomy.

I'm realising that maybe my workplace is quite unique!

I think the answer might be that it's easier if you start working again when your children are of school age, and, therefore, a bit more resilient when unwell - e.g. not scared or inconsolable. Sometimes children are unwell and waiting in school for parents to be able to pick them up - I guess that that scenario would apply to you, if you were unable to come for them. I suppose, feeling ill at 2pm is easier to accommodate - with them waiting on their school/ nursery premises - than if they suddenly threw up at 11am.

If your child had chicken pox and was off for two weeks - that wouldn't go down well with the school where you teach. But I'd be asking the senior management at your school what colleagues usually do, when faced with your situation.Work off the answer to consider arrangements which, in the past, colleagues have made,

The answer is that it is probably better to consider supply teaching, booking up on a day-to-day basis.

I hope you get some good answers from other posters, as I can see it's difficult - especially if the friends whom you have made are in high-pressure careers, where they can't leave in the middle of the day.

@coffeecupsandfairylights two hours if they are in the country and if they can pick them up. But I wasn’t posting about my PIL, thanks.

Honestly I would look for another job, it sounds like you are in a really unsupportive school.

You absolutely are legally allowed to leave work for this though you may lose pay. I definitely think you need to discuss with colleagues - for example you say you were free and could have covered your colleague when their dad passed away. You need to have a chat with your colleagues and see if everyone is on board with trying to cover each other in emergencies. You say you wouldn't have liked to give up your 'free' for your colleague, I don't really know what that means but you need to have a chat and see if you are on the same page. That way in future you can contact teacher x if you need to leave and ask them to cover, then tell SLT the plan (don't ask, tell them). That way they cannot say there is no cover. Obviously this will only work if you all help each other out, that includes you of course! You all have a duty to help each other imo. This is certainly how things operate in my team (NHS), we all help each other out as much as possible. If no one is available to cover you, still tell SLT you need to leave and they can bloody cover it themselves! You are totally right to put your child first, it is disgusting that SLT would try and prevent it, especially when it doesn't sound like it happens often.