Work refusing to let me leave

[Summerreid]

This has happened twice now where I have needed to leave during the day and work have refused, saying there is no one available to cover (secondary school teacher.) Just wondering if anybody knows what my legal position is.

Are you in the union? If not, why not?

I feel you are being a bit of a pushover - you are not stadning up for your rights. You are hoping the school leadership will be 'kind' but that is unrealistic.

Summerreid I’d expect more compassion from your managers but unfortunately it seems from the thread lots of schools are not very parent friendly. I know full well that my daughter’s primary school teacher has been off lots of times to deal with her sick children. It comes with the territory if you’re employing people in their 30s with families especially as you can’t work from home and fudge it like so many others can.

With my own children, I’ve had a number of call outs over the years especially during covid. What do they have in place for dad’s on call for a labour? For all the trouble people seem to have arranging cover for sickness, I’ve never heard of anyone struggling with the variability of their paternity leave or dropping everything because their wife’s gone into labour….

You need to go over this person’s head. As per the advice of the previous poster who’s in a SLT role.

I can imagine it must be awful at the time, kind of like being in that ‘the computer says no’ sketch… but you have to put your foot down and tell them that they cannot demand that you stay on the premises when you have a true emergency involving dependents. Tell them they are breaking employment law by forbidding you from leaving and that you will be escalating it to SLT/HR and then leave the building.

But I’d try to get the situation sorted out before it comes to that again, by arranging a meeting with HR/SLT to point out that one of their staff seems to not understand basic employment law 😉

This post is ridiculous. Only do supply if you are a parent of preschoolers and have no help nearby.

Yes. This will help massively with the huge teacher shortage.

www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants

I’d either rely on the above or say I was poorly/feel sick and need to leave school if they are being difficult and then go collect child. Shame that you’d need to revert to that tho. Good luck x

Op if you want legal advice post on legal. ACAS helpline are also very good and free.

It's common in some jobs I'm not allowed to leave the ward as a nurse if I'm the only one there. Phones aren't allowed on the ward so my OH and school has the ward phone number for emergencies only.

Another one -www.tuc.org.uk/blogs/taking-time-work-when-your-child-sick-know-your-rights

I am a lawyer but you don’t need to be one to Google - there is alot of guidance/info out there. Good luck. If any consolation my DH is a teacher and he’s never left work to look after a poorly kid, it’s always been me 🙈

@summerreid in your exact situation I would put your PIL down as emergency contacts. However I wouldn't expect them to collect for illness unless the childcare provider couldn't get hold of you and only if they were available of course.

I have used an emergency contact before when Dad didn't answer and Mum was going straight to voicemail. Turned out Mum had been in a car accident and then emergency contact came and collected. I've also used it when child was unwell and i couldn't get hold of parents - Dad worked 2 hours away and turned out had been in a client meeting and Mum was a teacher. Grandparents were on holiday in another part of the UK. Nothing I could do and was about 2 hours before Mum was due to collect. I had to keep children separate but in my small home it was fairly pointless. Myself and my children ended up getting the vomiting bug and it ripped through my setting meaning I had to close for nearly 2 weeks and all parents were impacted with no childcare. Conversely when children have been collected promptly we've not caught it. Luck possibly but who knows.

I'm not having a dig at you. I can see you're in a tremendously difficult situation. I'm actually former HR and would suggest you speak to your union for some advice but definitely put in laws down as emergency contact so that there's someone there - even if its for the unlikely event that you and DH both end up in a car crash and end up in hospital and you want to make sure DC doesn't temporarily go to social services, which is what will happen without an emergency contact. If a childcare provider knows an emergency contact is en route to collect they will hold onto them. Do speak to school but talk to your union first.

Does your school use SIMS? There is a way for you to check who is free, I can send you instructions tomorrow if that would help? I know it isn’t ideal to find your own cover in an emergency but it gets rid of their argument of nobody being available.

Amazed at how little all the posters know about what is actually going on in schools right now. You think your child’s teacher is so important that they can’t possibly be a dependent parent. Have any of you checked if your child’s teacher is qualified and even better again actually qualified in their subject? We are so understaffed at the minute that owning a calculator is the only requirement for teaching maths in my school. It’s a joke!
If teachers were given half the respect we deserve (since we have been equated to surgeon and pilots a lot in this thread) then perhaps we would be able to staff our schools appropriately.
I’m also shocked by how sexist most of you are, majority of teachers are women and majority of dependent parents are women. This is a major issue affecting good teachers being in work, being full time (& able to progress)

My school are always so accomodatig when I need to collect a sick child. I think your school are being unreasonable and ignoring your legal right to time off. If I were you I would push for clarity on this with HR, send them the links to the government and union advice and ask them what would happen if you 'had' to leave. Then just tell them you are going in future.

Ignore all the ridiculous posters saying you should just leave your own poorly child at school or find someone else to look after them What planet do they all live on? Child minders aren't going to want to take sick or contagious children inand the school office staff don't want to be catching vomit all afternoon. I wonder how people would feel if their sick colleagues just hung around puking into the bin in the corner of the office all afternoon?

I think we are talking at cross purposes @MaverickSnoopy . I appreciate the time it took you to type that, but PIL are emergency contacts. However, emergency contact is just that, an emergency, a case where neither I or DH can be tracked down.

Nor am I in a particularly difficult situation. I work three days a week, and I do have a DH. There are others in far harder situations. But occasionally situations do arise and I have used my childrens illnesses here but it’s something impacting on all my colleagues if ever any of us need to leave in the school day, if we are unwell ourselves or have an emergency.

I’m a teacher luckily kids grown up now. As far as I know, if you need to go pick up a sick child you obviously have to go. I would say it may take a little time for them to arrange for someone to cover for you but that doesn’t take too long. I have not heard of refusal though. You can read your schools policy on this and perhaps speak informally to a union rep. Hope the little ones are ok x

I'd be tempted to suggest that you contact your school's staff governor to explain this situation and see if more robust arrangements can be put into place for cover for carers. Our school is fortunately very good on work/life balance/wellbeing matters. But I would also try my best to buddy up with a friend who also works part-time to see if you could have a mutual agreement about helping out in situations like this. It won't always work, but might cover some occasions. It is really hard with young children.

I think you need to involve your union. I’d approach from H & S point of view. If you are unwell eg just fainted and feeling shaky then it’s unsafe to you and the pupils to leave you in class eg if you faint again and a child attacks you or harms himself or another child whilst unsupervised. I’d be framing in those terms.

Who are you speaking to when you're asking to leave? The person organising cover? Or your HOD/the Head? If it's just the person organising cover then I'd suggest you're not speaking to the right person.

Whenever I've needed to leave school (also secondary), I've gone to my HoD or Head, explained, and left immediately. It's then up to them to sort the cover.

I've never worked in a school that has refused teachers the right to leave during the school day in an emergency. Someone who becomes unwell or who has an emergency during the working day is always entitled to leave. It's not a prison!

Have a word with your union rep and ask them to get clarification on the school's policies and procedures for emergency absences during the school day. This should sort the problem as they will have to admit that their current response is illegal and in some cases would be a huge safeguarding failure. You mentioned a member of staff fainting while in charge of a class. If said member of staff was prevented from leaving and knowingly left in charge of further classes that day despite the risk of them fainting again (and being unable to therefore supervise the children in front of them), the school is deliberately putting children at risk of harm. This is about more than staff absence, it's about making sure the staff you have in front of your students are fit to supervise them safely.

I think anyone who doesn't have a support network to help in these types of situations is in a difficult situation tbh. I admire you because you're putting your child first. You'd be surprised (or perhaps not from this thread) at the sheer number of people who leave their ill children in childcare, turn off their phones to avoid difficult phone calls, drop a poorly child and run etc. You're confronting more than an issue for yourself but for many people who find themselves in this situation with employers who try to avoid basis employment law.

Emergency contacts aren't only used by childcare settings in the event of emergencies but also as a second port of call for illnesses if they can't get hold of parents, it's standard.

It’s up to the school to sort cover. If you have an urgent requirement needing you to leave - eg vomiting preschooler who needs to be collected - then you have to go. Of course it’s not convenient for them but you have to go and they need to sort cover.

I would phone the head of year and say you are leaving they need to come and mind the children or send someone to do it. Give them a time in say 10minutes. If they are not there knock on the class next door and say you are leaving and the someone will be there to look after the children soon. Surely this is covered as time of for dependents so you shouldn't be penalised

I think she can make decisions without authorization from her husband. I don’t know where the magical childcare that’s on full time standby, to pick up occasionally ill children at zero notice, exists though, but I’d love to know, sounds fabulous.

I’m sorry, it sounds shit.

i had similar as a midwife, I wasn’t allowed to leave when Dd was in a&e. They said she was safe and looked after.

i also once got knocked out on the way to work (hit by a car), turned up on my ward covered in blood to say I needed to go to a&e and the Band 7 looked in my eyes and said I wasn’t concussed and to get in a room and look after a labourer!

some jobs are shit for caring for their own staff. But I do see that a shift/day being short staffed could cause issues.

but PIL are emergency contacts. However, emergency contact is just that, an emergency, a case where neither I or DH can be tracked down. so it wasn't an emergency then. Surely if it was an emergency, your PIL would be used as the emergency contact for your other child/children when their school couldn't contact you to get you to attend.

I know its inconvenient, but work comes with a lot of responsibility. You could of course have left it is was a real emergency and dealt with the fall out later, which if it was a real emergency, would probably have not impacted against you. But no job will let you just come and go when you are meant to be at work unless it is an emergency.

But you are being so vague, its difficult to tell if it was an emergency or not.

Slight tangent but does your sch use SIMS? You can find out who is free via reports/free staff (or similar) pathway.

I’ve never worked in such an unreasonable sch wrt leaving in an emergency. It’s unrealistic and must be horrendous for well being.