Work refusing to let me leave

[Summerreid]

This has happened twice now where I have needed to leave during the day and work have refused, saying there is no one available to cover (secondary school teacher.) Just wondering if anybody knows what my legal position is.

Wow, some of the responses on here! The irony of a job where we care for children but we are expected to just put our own children at the bottom of the pile.

For what it's worth, I am a primary teacher and my Headteacher would absolutely let me go if I had to go pick up a sick child.

You might want to check with HR as they will clarify the position for you. For example, I know that if one of my children is sick, I have one day paid leave in order to try and find alternative childcare for them.

OP uses childcare. Nursery.

Also, CM's that would pick up ad hoc a sick child and bring them in their setting or that wouldn't want a child collected ASAP if ill(just like nursery) are like narwhals. We know they exist, but most people have yet to see one in real life.

tricky one, whilst workplaces do have to make allowances for people with children, I think that may just be children under 5. Employers have no legal obligation (as far as I know) to allow you to leave during contracted hours-but as a mum, your kids come first. It’s unusual for them to just simply say no though.

They do, and no it’s not just children under 5.

Wait.... someone fainted at your school and they weren't allowed to go home??

Someone's father died and they had to stay at work??
This is a toxic toxic workplace OP.

OP, your last post highlights that you seem to have a problem with one individual- the person in charge of sorting cover. To be it sounds like they are being plain lazy.

I think the SLT need to know as teachers will start leaving if their working conditions deteriorate to the point where families’ well-being are being severely compromised by an individual who refuses to lift a finger to organise emergency cover.

Your employer should have an absence policy and/or a leave of absence policy. That will provide a guideline as to what is or is not permitted.

As a school governor, my governing body were looking at a policy on this (for pupil absence) very recently. Most policies are standard and there is not a lot of leeway in them, but there is provision to consider exceptional circumstances - at least for pupil absence there is.

If your child is ill and cannot remain in the childcare provision location then your employer must recognise that you need to collect them in the same way that if a child in your class was ill, they'd ask the parent/responsible adult to collect them.

I work in a school - I would expect SLT to cover or get a supply to come in to cover for the rest of the day! I'd potentially expect you to finish the lesson teaching if secondary.

If a child is ill enough for the school to have called the parent then the child is ILL and they need to be at home. They don't need to be on reception office, waiting until home time because mummy/ daddy works.

Lots of heartless people on here OP ignore them!

@Piggywaspushed - It’s completely shit on the absence side of things and actually leads to more problems because of course if someone is feeling ropey they won’t chance coming in as they won’t get out again.

@Piggywaspushed - my husband was once in ICU and I was asked if I could come back in after visiting him...

Fair enough. I think you should try being more assertive, or skip that particular person to the next member of SLT/head if there's anyone.

So instead of "x is sick can I go and collected him please?" Say "I need to go and collect x as he has been sick. Plans are on the desk/drive I'm going in 10. Thank you." . If they still say "no cover" say "I'm really sorry but I need to go. ". Some members will SLT will always say no and give reasons in the hope you'll give up.

I avoid them when I need something like this. Either I go to someone else , or if the head is in, always to him. He might not be happy about it but always says yes in the end.

I don’t understand how the unions haven’t been involved in this already. Does your school have a rep?

Yes, OP, it sounds utterly counter productive. Are people allowed off site if they go into labour, or die ??

Reading the responses, especially earlier in the thread, I am surprised by the hostility to the idea of a teacher needing to leave work to collect a poorly child. Is it MN anti teacher sentiment? I work in a secondary school and there are always a number of teachers and SLT free who can cover and teachers are always allowed to leave if there is an issue. It is nothing like a surgeon or train driver situation for this reason. SLT expect these things, as with days off for child ill etc, to be shared fairly between parents when possible, and you only tend to get a lack of co operation if it is felt you are taking the pass over a period of time.

I’m afraid I don’t know what your legal position is so I can’t say for certain. But common sense wise, I wonder whether rather than blaming you for leaving when there is no cover you could turn it around - it seems to me you would have an argument that the school should reasonably anticipate occasions where staff need to attend to a personal emergency in the middle of the day and they should have a procedure in place to deal with that.

In your position I would write to whoever is in charge and ask what the procedure / plan is for these kind of foreseeable situations. Then at least you’ve pointed out that this sort of thing could and will arise.

My issue isn’t with an individual so much as the system. Individuals certainly perpetuate the situation by not bothering to check who is free but that’s been enabled by a system that treats us not particularly kindly.

That’s why I do really need to know where I stand legally because next time it happens I want to be in a position to say ‘you need to arrange cover because …’

God, teachers are treated like children!

I remember my DH being allowed half a day off after I gave birth because it was inconveniently two weeks early and coming up to exam season and ' the year 11 needed him'.

Oh, it's always "Yr11 need you '!

OP, it sounds very stressful. At our large secondary school it would be expected that if possible you teach the next lesson, but after that you leave. Ideally you would set some cover before you go, but that would depend on exactly how urgent the need to leave is. But you would phone up the person who administers the Cover system and they just get on with sorting it out. No chasing round corridors trying to find someone. We have Cover Supervisors who would be used in the first instance, and if they were all busy then the teachers (at least two) who were scheduled for priority cover that period would be contacted. And in the unlikely case that left nobody then a member of SLT would do it. There is no drama from the point of view of the school.

I remember when I was in a French class as a teenager our headmistress had to relieve our teacher as her son had been knocked off his bike on the way to school. The head took most of her classes that day! I would expect in these unexpected situations there may be a SLT member who can assist.

I am a Senior Leader in a secondary and I don’t think the school can refuse to let you leave. Sometimes however people ask for permission to leave, when they should tell them they need to leave.

I worked with a cover person in the past used to try and dissuade people from leaving school if they said they were I’ll or do the “I’ve got no one to cover” thing and a lot of people didn’t feel like they could insist. You need to be quite assertive and go above the cover person’s head if needed.

Is there an on-call system for SLT in your school? My advice if you do would be, rather than contacting cover, to call for the member of SLT on call. Tell them that you need to leave to deal with an emergency and then leave them with your class whilst you go and speak to the HT to explain that you have to take emergency dependents leave. I’ve done that for staff myself, and I’ve had SLT do it for me when I was a new teacher and had a bereavement. They should either sit with the class or get onto cover to send someone.

Well, then it states clearly on the U.K. government website that you, as an employee, are allowed time off to take care of dependents in an emergency.

The person who told you no is breaking employment law.

Are you employed by a local authority school or an academy chain?
In my experience academy schools usually have clearer policies and procedures regarding emergency dependants leave during the school day. It would be worth an email to the HR department of the academy chain.
If you are employed by an LA school it might be worth an email to your LA to ask what their guidance is then bring that to your SLT and ask for clarification on how they manage the guidance in school.

From a cover perspective it's much easier to cover staff who are absent all day than staff who leave mid shift (so to speak) but that doesn't mean they should refuse you leave to collect a poorly child and for your colleague who lost their dad honestly I have no words.

www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants

In short - you’re allowed to go, but your employer does not have to pay you and you must not have known about needing to go before the situation happened, e.g a genuine emergency. If they suspect you haven’t played fair with it or think you are abusing it then you would be at risk of losing your job.

I realise that @Blackbird2020 but it’s still a problem. I mean, to put it another way, we are all entitled to take sick leave as well but if you say in school ‘I need to go home - I have fainted / vomited / nearly died!’ the response is still ‘there’s no way you can go, I’ve no cover.’