Any Payroll experts in the house pls

[Lordhavemercy]

Hello, I was short-changed by my employer (paid for lesser hours) also they reported higher amounts of pay to HMRC.

Now, I sent an email to payroll about payment and the amount reported to HMRC which I got to know of through DWP. asked payroll to let me know the figures they reported to HMRC, and pay me the correct amount.

I just got an email from payroll saying I have no right to access any of my information with them and I replied I do as it is my own record I am not asking for another persons info etc

She replied saying she “studied payroll technician in University & have a knowledge of law and rights & have 18years of experience”.

Dont I have a right to request that they send me my own pay record (I have them in my bank statements but it seems they are making too many errors so what to be sure.) and the amount they reported to HMRC?

[lifecouldbeadream]

Subject access request?

[worriedandannoyed]

Do you get payslips every time you are paid? You should be able to show this doesn't match what has been reported to HMRC.

Set up a government gateway ID for HMRC and print off the payments that they have on record for you. Send this to your payroll provider along with your payslips and ask them to explain the differences.

[BarbaraWoodlouse]

Not sure I understand the issue re payroll but yes, first port of call would be a subject access request. Google ICO for a template letter.

[Lordhavemercy]

@worriedandannoyed. Test I get pay slips but I never check if they are the correct amount until I noticed a significantly smaller amount paid on my last payslip and then I checked the hours I worked and found I was definitely short- changed.

[Respectforpeople]

Every organisation must have a Data Protection Officer. Email them and state you are making a Subject Access Request for …. List documents including:

payslips for period x to y
copy of pay record on pay system for period x to y
copy of time sheets for period x to y
Any other personal data you want

You have the HMRC data from you personal account and your bank statement showing how much paid.

If you received less than minimum wage for hours worked report to HMRC.

Note: You can find the Data Protection Officer by looking at the organisations privacy notice.

I would be tempted to cc the payroll person in to the email, perhaps with a line that they may benefit from GDPR training.

[Lordhavemercy]

@BarbaraWoodlouse thanks I will google that thanks

[Idunnowhyibother]

You definitely should be receiving your pay slips and obviously your tax code is your business (hope you are on the right one). Worriedandannoyed has a good answer - you should ask for a reconciliation of any discrepancies.

[Respectforpeople]

@Lordhavemercy

@worriedandannoyed. Test I get pay slips but I never check if they are the correct amount until I noticed a significantly smaller amount paid on my last payslip and then I checked the hours I worked and found I was definitely short- changed.

Go back over the last 12 months payslips ( actually from 01/04/2021) and check hours worked vs hours paid. Then cross check with HMRC record.

[Lordhavemercy]

@lifecouldbeadream thanks. So I thought I can request to be given all information held about me but this lady at payroll is saying I do not have the right to access or be given what they have on record for me. I have never heard of that before.

[Lordhavemercy]

@Respectforpeople thanks I will be doing as soon as possible

[lifecouldbeadream]

It would be quicker to check if you have your payslips. But if not, you can do a SAR.

if you have your payslips, you can check your pay. Check that against what went into your bank and then check in your online HMRC account.

You really should keep your payslips if you don’t already.

[Lordhavemercy]

@lifecouldbeadream I have my payslips

Last month, I was paid for 19hours instead of 28 hours so short-changed. For example say I was supposed to be paid £2,000 and I was paid £1300


DWP then informed me they reported an amount that was way higher than I was paid. For example, I was paid £1300 and they reported to HMRC that I was paid £2800 🙄.

I will sign up for HMRC account as soon as I can. Thanks

[lifecouldbeadream]

Ok- so two things occur to me:

It could be payroll cut off- so you’ll be paid the missing hours next month.

That doesn’t explain the difference in reporting to HMRC. And it would be very unusual for them to report they paid you more than they did. Payroll use RTI and this should be in the correct period. It is possible that you’ve had two payments in one period ( for example if they pay you early because payday falls on a weekend). Does the last figure DWP have match the last 2 of your pay days?
If you are on benefits that look at pay in the period, this would account for the difference in figures.

[AlisonDonut]

Have you had you p45 yet?

[Sapphirejane]

Not to be patronising but are you sure you aren’t mixing up net and gross? They’d report the gross to HMRC and pay you the net amount after taxes etc deducted. It wouldn’t account for a big a difference as in your example but not sure if these are exact figures.

I’m not sure what your employer would have to gain by inflating your pay to HMRC, they’d have to pay more Employers NI for a start. Unless they are reporting the correct amounts and someone is taking a cut out of your net wage and paying you the rest but wage slips/P60 would show a discrepancy.

[Lordhavemercy]

@lifecouldbeadream no is not about gross and net pay definitely not because the difference won't be that much and I have checked. Also, I can't see any missing payment from previous months and that is why I am requesting that they let me see shat they have for me on their system.

The figures I gave were not the real figures but that's the differences in the figures worked, paid and reported are similar to the real figures.

It is not because I was paid early etc.

But it could be that maybe someone got my NI number wrong at the HMRC & DWP when sending the payment amount reported to them by my employer. 🤷🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️

[AlisonDonut]

Have you had your P45 yet?

[AllThatFancyPaintsAsFair]

@AlisonDonut

Have you had your P45 yet?

I read that the Op is still working there, why would she have a p45

It seems extremely unlikely that they would be somehow making fake payslips and telling HMRC higher figures. That would be a lot of work and for what reason? That surely can't be happening

[treesandweeds]

Are you confusing contracted hours and overtime? My work process the overtime worked is the next month, so all OT worked in may is paid at the end of June, for example

[Aprilx]

As you have your payslips, I am unclear what it is you want the payroll department to send you?

As an aside they they do not have to send you duplicate payslips, even if you did a SAR you are not entitled to duplicates of original documents. But as you have these anyway, this is a moot point, I don’t understand what you are looking for.

[Sapphirejane]

OP your NI will be shown on your payslips and P60. You can check this to your records.

If it’s an hours issue can you ask for your timesheets instead?

[SolasAnla]

@Aprilx

As you have your payslips, I am unclear what it is you want the payroll department to send you?

As an aside they they do not have to send you duplicate payslips, even if you did a SAR you are not entitled to duplicates of original documents. But as you have these anyway, this is a moot point, I don’t understand what you are looking for.

This is not correct.
If the company keep copies of payslips or any other document the data subject is entitled to be given a copy as this is data processed and stored. Anything from the original timesheet detailing shift patterns, the clocking in/out card data, HR sign off documents which would have to be redacted for 3rd party signing data, payroll reports, bank transfer or cash signing sheets etc. etc. A lot of the data would be stored as would be needed to prove that the payroll department was making the correct payments to the correct people. And this is subject to audit by HMRC as failing to pay correct Tax and NI on wages is a good indicator of a poorly run business or one actively engaged in fraud.


@AllThatFancyPaintsAsFair
It seems extremely unlikely that they would be somehow making fake payslips and telling HMRC higher figures. That would be a lot of work and for what reason? That surely can't be happening

Payroll fraud in large organisations happen by poor internal controls and staff brazen enough to take advantage.

Skimming £5 nett pay from one employee is not a lot?

Its £500 per hundred targeted staff
or an extra
£6k per year if paid monthly,
£26k per year if paid weekly
Its £5k per thousand
so an extra
£60k per year if paid monthly
£260k per year if paid weekly

The payroll report is
Gross - Tax - NI =
Net pay (bank transfer /cash)
The "trick" is to make sure that it all adds back so the HR records and bank statments match.
The individual bank payments would not as employees 1 -5000 are deducted £5 each and employee 5001 has addition of an extra £5,000 in the bank.



NB OP i am not suggesting this is what is happening.

[AllThatFancyPaintsAsFair]

@SolasAnla maybe some payroll employees do alter salary amounts (I don't understand exactly what you mean) but how do they report a different amount to HMRC?

Maybe I'm missing something but I cant see how they can be running 2 parallel systems - one that reports high amounts to Hmrc and one that produces payslips for lower amounts for the employees. How does that work?

[Lordhavemercy]

@AllThatFancyPaintsAsFair yes, that's exactly what happened


Is like I got paid £3 instead of £5 and then report to HMRC that I was paid £11 🤷🏽‍♀️ therefore, my tax credit was lower than it should be. & possible missed out of the cost of living payment. I did ask DWP to give me an email to send my payslip and bank statement to but no reply.

Could it be that work reported wrong higher amount because they made a mistake with my NI? But I am sure the income report to HMRC are all automated but then, they paid me a different amount. So, I'm scratching my head here wondering what on earth happened.

I told work I want a record of all my pay from their system and all amounts reported to HMRC since I started work with them. They are refusing saying that I have no right to access my pay record with them. I have emailed the operations manager to give me the details of the data protection officer for the company but no reply yet.

I ask for the pay record since I started because I have a record of all d hours worked since I started work with them this year and I want to go through everything thoroughly myself because something is not right.

I will call DWP & HMRC on Monday to ask for an email to send my payslip and bank statement to them to show the actual amount paid. I will also email work that I give them 7 days to send me pay records or I report the matter to an employment tribunal like ACAS etc or what do you all think?

[Respectforpeople]

Definitely contact DWP and HMRC.

WRT work you need to follow the ICO process to make an SAR as this has statutory timelines. ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/your-right-to-get-copies-of-your-data/

I wouldn’t threaten ACAS/ET at this stage, keep it polite and reasonable. However, point out the financial detriment you have suffered and that you would appreciate this being resolved asap.