Not skilled enough to keep a job

[Mashinga]

I’ve completed a web design and PHP course online. I’ve invested maybe 100 hours. I’ve applied for jobs and been very clear that I’m a mum who has done this IT training at home while my DS was at nursery, I have no prior training in IT (my degree was in history). I’ve shown interviewers my portfolio and said that’s the extent of my current skills.

I’ve been hired twice. Both times I’ve been sacked within a couple of weeks because I couldn’t do stuff they were asking for, they wanted more programming skills than I had. Even though I was very clear about the extent of my skills.

I don’t know what else to do. Surely the employer should know what skills they want and ensure the candidate has them?

I should say this is not a new experience for me. There have been a few occasions prior to this where employers have hired me on minimum wage and been disappointed to discover I can’t do stuff that’s way beyond my pay grade. DH says it’s just shitty little employers wanting the moon on a stick for min wage. But it’s really knocked my confidence and I now feel like I’m just not skilled enough to get a job.

Job number 1 “Junior PHP Programmer” lasted three weeks. Looking back I was obviously a diversity hire in a young white male company. My manager (who didn’t interview me or choose me) was constantly annoyed because I didn’t know how to do a lot of stuff (the other juniors were men who had 4 year computing degrees). He gave me tasks that involved something called object oriented programming, which I’d never heard of (he was furious when I said I didn’t know it). It ended with me saying I don’t know how to do this, and him screaming in my face “well it was stupid of you to accept this job then wasn’t it!”

100 hours is less than 3 weeks training. Do they know how little training you have?

100 hours isn't much at all - most engineers are coming out of degree courses where they have been given extensive training, plus they will likely all of had projects they were working on during this time too

Your experience is self taught and minimal, so you really need a trainee position to start right at the bottom

That's really hard, sorry to hear you've had crappy experiences. It's really good that you've done the course and in theory there should be lots of career opportunities for you, given the shortage of IT skills vs demand for them. That said, 100 hours isn't really a lot. I know it sounds a lot but I'm thinking of programmers I know - even the classic teenage boy type - who'll do that much programming in their spare time within a month. Are you still doing plenty and learning more or have you just done the course and then hope to learn the rest on the job? Even though you studied history, do you feel like programming fits your mindset and you can transfer the principles into areas you've not learned? Like - have you now looked into object oriented programming and can see how to get to grips with it? Or do you just want to stick within the limits you've learned?

It's not my field, but my DH employs a lot of programmers and there's definitely a divide between the sort who just know how to do a certain thing and get stuck and others who have a general facility for it and can constantly evolve. It must be frustrating and disheartening for you, but hang on in there and hopefully there'll be a job with more emphasis on training. Perhaps in the public sector where they're less likely to fire people and should be more supportive. The other thing to bear in mind, in terms of how clear you've been and how they've still not understood, is that some people in that sector aren't the greatest at communication, so you might need to be even clearer than you think to make them understand not only what you can do, but how they can help get you there. Maybe communicate in writing rather than verbally so it doesn't get into a place where you're upset and they're shouting. It'll be in their interests to get you skilled and keep you there, as once you're up and running, you can call the shots job-wise. Good luck!

100 hrs is nothing. Id recommend you practice daily now and continue to build your skills, next time you'll know more.

Is there an element that they're expecting you to be a fast learner and you aren't? Technical development work suits some more than others and good ones have a certain aptitude and ability to very quickly pick up new skills. If I don't see that in a new hire and they need a certain level of hands on formal training to pick things up, they aren't going to be the right person for the type of role I have. I wonder if that's possibly case? Sorry!

Agree with others that 100 hours isn't a lot. When you're given tasks you don't understand, like the object oriented programming, do you spend any time trying to find out more about it/learn more? Even just googling it would probably give you some basic info on what is involved.

Dh works in IT with no formal IT training and an unrelated degree. When he had his first job he would come home in the evening and Google the things he was being asked to do and find online tutorials and YouTube videos. He's now in a senior role and trains junior members of the team, despite being entirely self taught through google

Do you want to be a programmer? If not are you looking in the IT sector because of interest or availability of roles?

Maybe it would be better to apply for jobs that don't require these specific skills, if you're just generally looking to get back into work. If you can afford to work PT then you could dedicate maybe a day a week to training/volunteering to gain the skills and experience for the job you actually want?

I looked at doing a conversion masters in internet technologies. It would include six modules, each with 30 hours teaching time. They were 1. Research and writing skills, 2. User experience, 3. Project management, 4. E-business, 5. Web programming, 6. PHP.

Only 5 and 6 actually involved any programming. So I’d be doing a full year and paying a fortune for 60 hours of tuition plus practising in my own time for maybe 200 hours. I figured I could do that on my own for much less money.

I probably did spend 50-60 hours doing tuition. I may have sold myself a bit short when I said 100 hours total, I probably did a bit more than that. I need more practice but study wise I’m roughly the same as if I’d done that MSc. Which you’d think would be enough to get a job, but it isn’t.

I’d seen it discussed on here and suggested as something that was easy to pick up and flexible to fit around kids with lots of wfh opportunities.

I don’t particularly want to be a programmer but then I don’t particularly want to be a shop assistant or a call centre person or a carer or any of the things that are available to me really. A job is a job.

I'm thinking of programmers I know - even the classic teenage boy type - who'll do that much programming in their spare time within a month
I don’t have 100 hours of spare time a month. After cooking, cleaning, laundry, childcare and everything else that teenage boys don’t have to do, I can spare maybe 10 hours a week. My aim was to get to the level of programming I’d be at if I’d done that masters course, then get an entry level job like a masters graduate would.

Would it be an option for you to try an (unpaid) intern/trainee role? So it's more about learning and being trained on the job?

A friend of mine did a coding boot camp course (more than 100hrs, think it was 3months?) and got an entry level role - but they've been really good about teaching and mentoring her as she goes

Are there any apprenticeship roles, so you can learn on the job?

What sort of salary did these roles have? It might be that you are underskilled for these roles but equally they might have been expecting skills way above what should be expected for that role. I have seen some ridiculous requirements for jobs paying very little where it's unlikely that anyone with the skills would apply for the posts.

A Masters is way way way more than that! A 20 credit module may be 30 taught hours (that's quite high actually) but you'd be expected to put in getting on for 200 hours yourself. Per module. It sounds like you've spent a bit of time looking at something very superficially as you thought it was an easy way to a quick buck. It's not. As others have said the effort you've put in is what kids do in half term for fun.

100 hours is nothing-that’s like a 2.5 week work experience. I’d be looking at your CV-it is maybe bigging up your skills.

If you want to be a programmer-do a more specific Masters conversion course. That’s what my DH did.

You might be better combining it with some cloud knowledge as well and expand your options. Microsoft and AWS do entry courses (AWS cloud practitioner and Azure Fundamentals) which are free and online. Microsoft also do training sessions online (www.microsoft.com/en-gb/events/training-days/) which are also worth watching.

But programming is quite hard and requires a lot of practice but those coding skills will come in handy for a infrastructure type role as well. a trainee desk side role would be good experience to start with so you have the basics etc and get a wide variety of experience.

You need to not think of your time as having a spare 10 hours a week. If you're serious about it you need to invest 35-40 hours a week learning for months. The same as if you had a full time job.

Or spend 10 hours a week but keep gojng and aim to get a job in two or three years.

Let’s say I’d done the masters degree - I’d have had 30 hours of tuition in PHP and 100 hours of practice. With a bit more practice I will have covered roughly that much. So I’d assume that’s enough for a junior PHP programmer role if they’re sending graduates out with that amount of experience?

Yes I did put on my CV which online course I’d done. I didn’t quantify it in hours but they could easily see it’s an introductory course. It probably didn’t help that the interviewer was a HR person. Maybe they excluded the IT manager from interviewing because he kept picking young white men. They were talking about diversifying and seemed very keen to hire someone who didn’t fit that description.

I don’t have 100 hours of spare time a month. After cooking, cleaning, laundry, childcare and everything else that teenage boys don’t have to do, I can spare maybe 10 hours a week. My aim was to get to the level of programming I’d be at if I’d done that masters course, then get an entry level job like a masters graduate would.

But you can’t expect to get to the level of programming that a Masters gives you, on 10 hours a week. My DH’s masters conversion was a full time course from September to July.

I am doing a online masters currently in a technology based field.

Its taking me much more than 10 hours a week, I usually do at least 4 hours a day after work, then extra reading in bed around areas where I have been stuck.

This makes no sense. How does thirty hours in each module come to a whole year?

if you have been fired twice clearly they think the stuff you are being asked to do is the basics and they assume you have those skills as these seem very junior jobs.

on addition you are writing like a hundred hours is a lot. I guess that’s becayse you felt it was when doing it, but three weeks training and not doing the two most important modules is costing you.

in addition you don’t see, proactive, you aren’t going ok leave it with me and Googling how ro do it, what training is required, or anyone who could help you, you just say sorry don’t know how to do it. I suspect as this is just a job to you

i think either do more training or stop applying for these roles. The fact you have been fired regularly, Ie it happened in previous roles, says you are really good at interviews, but you really are not asking the right questions on what’s expected of you, and actually making it clear what you can and can’t do.

maybe a sales job or customer service job would be the answer?

What sort of salary did these roles have?
£22k in London. So a bit above min wage but not loads especially considering the location.

If I’m not working in a paid job I can’t claim the 30 hours free childcare.

I think you need to bear in mind that there will be school/college leavers with similar skills and more to offer.