Absolutely devastated at how new job has taken a wrong turn

[Metabigot]

Started a new job last month (internal move) and managing a team of 3 people. I thought all was fine. One of them was a bit whingey and said she'd not been given development opportunities in the past, I said I'd develop her but put together a proper plan once I'd been in post a little while and done her PDR which would be in the new year.

She asked if she could note take at a senior meeting, I said fine. She then started to get overly involved with making suggestions to me for how I should run this meeting, what I should do etc and when I tried to bat it back a bit (such as saying let's see first what so and so says at the meeting) she came back a bit more forcefully.

Just before the meeting I suddenly thought she may start trying to input in the meeting itself which would have been inappropriate and so I rang her to say 'you understand your role at the meeting is just to note take don't you'

Perhaps in hindsight I could have said it more gently but to be frank, all hell broke lose. She accused me of being rude and not helping her. I rang my manager to put it on her radar, she then rang my manager and cried down the phone about how horrible I was being.

I tried to call her to smooth the waters, she then attacked me with a tirade of all my faults as a manager and how she'd made me want to leave the company etc. And I've only been managing her four weeks!

I tried to move on but that evening I just got more and more upset at home with how she'd spoken to me and criticised me, felt totally undermined as a manager and so spoke to my manager who got us on a 3 way call without warning or consent. She continued to berate me on the call despite my manager trying to play mediator, eventually saying she was refusing to work with me any longer as she'd lost confidence in me.

I had to leave for another meeting and my manager has basically told her she has to work for me or look for another job but wow wtf has happened here? I really do wonder about her mental health as she said this all started when we had a meeting at head office and went out as a group later (this was before I'd even joined that team). Some of us got separated after the bar and ended up at a different restaurant - apparantly I was ignoring her calls and laughing at her the next day? I didn't even know she'd called me! I wasn't even managing her then!

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone with the employee from hell - HELP!!!

I don't know what happened to create the situation but you could consider that it may be that you weren't that supportive of her, she could be quite ambitious and want encouragement and didn't feel it from you?

Also I feel its not fresh to suggest that her mental health is in question just because you don't like what she's said - does it really mean that she has issues with her mental health just because you don't agree with her? I am just asking myself, what kind of person makes judgements like this about people they work with? and what does it even matter if she does have issues with her mental health? does that mean she doesn't make sense or can't handle helping out a manager? Please before you respond, can you research that people with mental health issues are not 'mad' or 'hysterical' and if she does, she deserves more support and empathy, not some judgemental manager trying to put her in her place.

It sounds like she wants to work together and frankly, you don't.

Did she happen to apply for your new job? Or have been working for the company for a long time before you joined?

Some people are cunts. Don’t over analyse it but do think of how you’re going to make sure she doesn’t get you down.

@Catfog

If it wasn't appropriate for her to participate in the meeting and you were concerned she would do so, you should have said no to her note taking. If she had a burning desire to improve on her shorthand or writing minutes then I'm sure you could have discussed other opportunities with her. By saying yeah sure and then phoning and saying that I'm not surprised she felt a little bit aggrieved. If she was effing and blinding in a meeting with other managers and no one did anything then you all sound shit to be honest.

This.

You sound a bit up yourself OP.
Referring to her as ‘employee’. Really?
You sound out of your depth. Perhaps you need more guidance yourself too?

@Catfog

If it wasn't appropriate for her to participate in the meeting and you were concerned she would do so, you should have said no to her note taking. If she had a burning desire to improve on her shorthand or writing minutes then I'm sure you could have discussed other opportunities with her. By saying yeah sure and then phoning and saying that I'm not surprised she felt a little bit aggrieved. If she was effing and blinding in a meeting with other managers and no one did anything then you all sound shit to be honest.

This! If you really want to develop her, you did have suggested something more appropriate that she could get involved in.

@rookiemere

I'd say you need to let less go if anything and pull her up any time she disrespects you in a major fashion.

So tomorrow get her in and say you'd like to have a chat now that everything has calmed down, let's draw a line under the whole meeting incident but she must not use profanity in work meetings and if she does then going forward that would be a written warning.

Sounds like you need to manage her out and she can probably do that by herself but you need to appear to be completely professional at all times, don't engage emotionally at all.

The not engaging emotionally is the bit i a) have struggled with most and therefore b) need to work on most.

You win the thread Rookie

This! If you really want to develop her, you did have suggested something more appropriate that she could get involved in

Yes - she offered to note take and at the time I thought 'why not' - saves me trying to find another note taker. I'm used to note takers literally just doing that - note take - with a bit of a discussion afterwards. She clearly saw her role as more involved and the more she was pushing for me to manage the case in a direction I didn't agree with (and my seniors didn't agree with either so not just my opinion) the more I probably got annoyed and whilst I tried not to show it it must have seeped out somehow and was seen as a rejection of her ideas

@bimbimbap

Did she happen to apply for your new job? Or have been working for the company for a long time before you joined?

She didn't apply for my job but I do know she was passed over for a development opportunity before I joined the team and was annoyed that she only found out she'd been passed over for on the grapevine.

Thanks OP - do I get a sticker for winning the thread ? Seriously I love stickers , when we were in the office I used to hand out the ones for good behaviour.
A great resource is the website www.askamanager.org , some really useful into there.

@JorisBohnson2

This! If you really want to develop her, you did have suggested something more appropriate that she could get involved in

Yes - she offered to note take and at the time I thought 'why not' - saves me trying to find another note taker. I'm used to note takers literally just doing that - note take - with a bit of a discussion afterwards. She clearly saw her role as more involved and the more she was pushing for me to manage the case in a direction I didn't agree with (and my seniors didn't agree with either so not just my opinion) the more I probably got annoyed and whilst I tried not to show it it must have seeped out somehow and was seen as a rejection of her ideas

See I even think this is a bit condescending. I can well believe it seeped out.

@Strangeways19

I don't know what happened to create the situation but you could consider that it may be that you weren't that supportive of her, she could be quite ambitious and want encouragement and didn't feel it from you?

Also I feel its not fresh to suggest that her mental health is in question just because you don't like what she's said - does it really mean that she has issues with her mental health just because you don't agree with her? I am just asking myself, what kind of person makes judgements like this about people they work with? and what does it even matter if she does have issues with her mental health? does that mean she doesn't make sense or can't handle helping out a manager? Please before you respond, can you research that people with mental health issues are not 'mad' or 'hysterical' and if she does, she deserves more support and empathy, not some judgemental manager trying to put her in her place.

It sounds like she wants to work together and frankly, you don't.

There are ways to work together though - I have another team member I've worked together brilliantly with and the energy is just massively different. I get that I have to try and find a way to work with the not so easy ones too. But it goes both ways.

I don't know why you have had such a hard time from some posters. I'm not saying you did nothing/anything wrong but when my manager made me re input her grammatical errors into a letter I'd typed and told me I wasn't to 'mess' with her work I dutifully did it, went home and called her all the names under the sun (to my flatmate). I started looking for a new job. I am proud of how I remained professional in that awful role.

Completely agree. I think you’ve probably made this person feel that you don’t value their development (putting it off with no clear date) and are keen to remind them of their place in the pecking order.

I've only been there a month - we have PDR dates set January which I think is a reasonable timescale given that I'm new in role with quite a few things to work out about the role myself before I can really give the team development a go.

@Northernsoullover

I don't know why you have had such a hard time from some posters. I'm not saying you did nothing/anything wrong but when my manager made me re input her grammatical errors into a letter I'd typed and told me I wasn't to 'mess' with her work I dutifully did it, went home and called her all the names under the sun (to my flatmate). I started looking for a new job. I am proud of how I remained professional in that awful role.

I seem to attract it on mumsnet - probably because I know my own mind to a certain extent and certain posters don't like that. There are some that particularly seem to see it as a bit of a blood sport. No doubt they'll be on soon to tell me how this proves what a terrible boss I am....

I'm used to it now, take it with a cellar of salt and just listen to the posters who don't seem to be playing that particular game.

Sounds like your boss has your back which is great. Sweating in a meeting, especially with your boss and your bosses boss on the phone will never end well for that person.

Did she apply for the job? Might explain her extreme reaction.

Her behaviour may also be the reason she hasn't progressed and why she's not had any opportunities. Did you have a hand over from the previous manager?

Very concerning you could start a thread yesterday and interact on it, then completely forget you did it. Which would indicate that not remembering laughing at her is quite unreliable? Yesterday you were saying I’m not the boss of her I’m going to get fired, todays take is slightly different?

Maybe you need some time off if you’re being prescribed benzos and it only happened yesterday? In that time you’ve started threads twice and seen a doctor and been seriously medicated?

I've only been there a month - we have PDR dates set January which I think is a reasonable timescale given that I'm new in role with quite a few things to work out about the role myself before I can really give the team development a go.

I don’t agree. The FIRST thing a good manager does is get their team on board and develop their aspirations. You’re clearly signalling that your team aren’t important to you and that’s not going to lend itself to good relationships.

@Bluntness100

Very concerning you could start a thread yesterday and interact on it, then completely forget you did it. Which would indicate that not remembering laughing at her is quite unreliable? Yesterday you were saying I’m not the boss of her I’m going to get fired, todays take is slightly different?

Maybe you need some time off if you’re being prescribed benzos and it only happened yesterday? In that time you’ve started threads twice and seen a doctor and been seriously medicated?

I'd love some time off! 2 weeks til christmas yes, I really did forget I'd started the other thread. Who said I'd seen a doctor? I had some leftover medication from a previous time.

It sounds like it's really clear in this kind of job that note-taking is a sought-after learning opportunity and she should have been grateful to be given that, not throw her dummy out of the pram because she wasn't allowed to ride roughshod over her manager and the meeting itself. Surely she should understand that each person has their role and the company doesn't revolve around her? She can't on day 1 demand that you "develop" her immediately, in her preferred way. It's obvious that you were perfectly willing to develop her, with your company's completely normal timescales and processes. She sounds like she has a huge chip on her shoulder and an attitude problem, and is her own worst enemy. Thank goodness your manager sees this and supports you. She will no doubt quit and say she was "bullied out" - well, good riddance, and nobody sensible who had ever had dealings with her will believe her. People will make their own assessment of you. Stand firm and hold your head up.

@CrispAndFrosty

It sounds like it's really clear in this kind of job that note-taking is a sought-after learning opportunity and she should have been grateful to be given that, not throw her dummy out of the pram because she wasn't allowed to ride roughshod over her manager and the meeting itself. Surely she should understand that each person has their role and the company doesn't revolve around her? She can't on day 1 demand that you "develop" her immediately, in her preferred way. It's obvious that you were perfectly willing to develop her, with your company's completely normal timescales and processes. She sounds like she has a huge chip on her shoulder and an attitude problem, and is her own worst enemy. Thank goodness your manager sees this and supports you. She will no doubt quit and say she was "bullied out" - well, good riddance, and nobody sensible who had ever had dealings with her will believe her. People will make their own assessment of you. Stand firm and hold your head up.

I'm quite glad now that my manager brought her into a 3 way call/mini mediation where she lost the plot, as she can't play the 'sweetness and light' game with the big boss. Big boss has seen her true colours and she's backed herself into a corner now with the 'refusing to work with Joris' bullshit.

@Cherryana

What is happening to you is sociology 101.

Time to get a few things straight in your own mind.

1. You have not done anything to her to make her want to leave.
2. She is playing a victim.

Next, what is happening to you happens to everyone who takes on a leadership position. It feels personal to you - its not - its a universal thing which follows a familiar pattern.

Here goes:
-New leader comes in.
-New leader is challenged by someone/s negativity.
-New leader must stand their ground but this is the painful bit because its when it gets rocky. Challengers will either pipe down or leave.
-New leader needs to make some 'gains' connected to the business/organisation to consolidate position as leader (this is a status thing). You can only achieve this if you keep your head level and focused on the work - and not be distracted by the negative/manipulate challenger.

Play everything with a straight bat. Do not talk about anyone behind their back and do everything you can to stay being clear, calm and considered.

Keep notes of your interactions with this person.

bloody excellent advice and what I would say too. I have been a senior manager, not in HR but did a LOT of investigations/disciplinaries.

I do wonder though if you are on prescription meds and this has made you cry and lose focus, whether this is the right job/career path for you? Its always bastarding hard and you do need to be able to put it down at the end of the day and walk away. Its not personal. You do get attacked personally, complained about and so on and those complaints have to be investigated which is pretty horrible but whoever was in your position would get those same allegations and complaints. my experience is you need to have a hard streak in you or the job will take you down.

*bloody excellent advice and what I would say too. I have been a senior manager, not in HR but did a LOT of investigations/disciplinaries.

I do wonder though if you are on prescription meds and this has made you cry and lose focus, whether this is the right job/career path for you? Its always bastarding hard and you do need to be able to put it down at the end of the day and walk away. Its not personal. You do get attacked personally, complained about and so on and those complaints have to be investigated which is pretty horrible but whoever was in your position would get those same allegations and complaints. my experience is you need to have a hard streak in you or the job will take you down*

Thanks for your concern which really does come across as thought it is coming from the right place. I think as this is the first time this has happened, it's normal to react a bit and hopefully grow a thicker skin and next time deal with it better. I'm a big believer that we all can learn, if we are willing to.

I would hate to write off the job because of one bad experience. If I repeatedly get these kind of experiences and get freaked out, and it never changes, then yes maybe you are right about it not being the right job.

I like hearing the 'its not personal' message. I think with a bit of time and developing some confidence in myself as a new manager I'll get this more. At first though the temptation is to think 'Waaaa.. i'm doing it wrong, someone hates me what's wrong with me' But you are right maybe it's not 'me' they are disliking so much as my position as 'the manager' and anyone else would get it too, although maybe more experienced managers would nip it in the bud/see it coming and deal with it better.

Completely agree. I think you’ve probably made this person feel that you don’t value their development (putting it off with no clear date) and are keen to remind them of their place in the pecking order.

I agree too. And the type of responses here do lead me to believe the employee has at least a grievance in part.

There was a clear date - January.

@JorisBohnson2

*bloody excellent advice and what I would say too. I have been a senior manager, not in HR but did a LOT of investigations/disciplinaries.

I do wonder though if you are on prescription meds and this has made you cry and lose focus, whether this is the right job/career path for you? Its always bastarding hard and you do need to be able to put it down at the end of the day and walk away. Its not personal. You do get attacked personally, complained about and so on and those complaints have to be investigated which is pretty horrible but whoever was in your position would get those same allegations and complaints. my experience is you need to have a hard streak in you or the job will take you down*

Thanks for your concern which really does come across as thought it is coming from the right place. I think as this is the first time this has happened, it's normal to react a bit and hopefully grow a thicker skin and next time deal with it better. I'm a big believer that we all can learn, if we are willing to.

I would hate to write off the job because of one bad experience. If I repeatedly get these kind of experiences and get freaked out, and it never changes, then yes maybe you are right about it not being the right job.

I like hearing the 'its not personal' message. I think with a bit of time and developing some confidence in myself as a new manager I'll get this more. At first though the temptation is to think 'Waaaa.. i'm doing it wrong, someone hates me what's wrong with me' But you are right maybe it's not 'me' they are disliking so much as my position as 'the manager' and anyone else would get it too, although maybe more experienced managers would nip it in the bud/see it coming and deal with it better.

You are not there to be liked by everyone or to be their best friend.

You are there to do your job, to manage them,develop them and support them in doing theirs.

She completely fucked up by kicking off and your boss has your back. Take comfort in that and look at next steps . It happened, there are witnesses, it's unacceptable and unprofessional ,so where do you go from here? That's where your focus should be.