Absolutely devastated at how new job has taken a wrong turn

[Metabigot]

Started a new job last month (internal move) and managing a team of 3 people. I thought all was fine. One of them was a bit whingey and said she'd not been given development opportunities in the past, I said I'd develop her but put together a proper plan once I'd been in post a little while and done her PDR which would be in the new year.

She asked if she could note take at a senior meeting, I said fine. She then started to get overly involved with making suggestions to me for how I should run this meeting, what I should do etc and when I tried to bat it back a bit (such as saying let's see first what so and so says at the meeting) she came back a bit more forcefully.

Just before the meeting I suddenly thought she may start trying to input in the meeting itself which would have been inappropriate and so I rang her to say 'you understand your role at the meeting is just to note take don't you'

Perhaps in hindsight I could have said it more gently but to be frank, all hell broke lose. She accused me of being rude and not helping her. I rang my manager to put it on her radar, she then rang my manager and cried down the phone about how horrible I was being.

I tried to call her to smooth the waters, she then attacked me with a tirade of all my faults as a manager and how she'd made me want to leave the company etc. And I've only been managing her four weeks!

I tried to move on but that evening I just got more and more upset at home with how she'd spoken to me and criticised me, felt totally undermined as a manager and so spoke to my manager who got us on a 3 way call without warning or consent. She continued to berate me on the call despite my manager trying to play mediator, eventually saying she was refusing to work with me any longer as she'd lost confidence in me.

I had to leave for another meeting and my manager has basically told her she has to work for me or look for another job but wow wtf has happened here? I really do wonder about her mental health as she said this all started when we had a meeting at head office and went out as a group later (this was before I'd even joined that team). Some of us got separated after the bar and ended up at a different restaurant - apparantly I was ignoring her calls and laughing at her the next day? I didn't even know she'd called me! I wasn't even managing her then!

I feel like I'm in the twilight zone with the employee from hell - HELP!!!

@Getyourarseofffthequattro

Well clearly not only on Mumsnet if you're upsetting people in real life.

Do you really feel the other employee has acted in an appropriate way?

If she started effing and blinding after that small incident it's not surprising she hasn't progressed.

How long has she been with the company?

@Eastie77Returns

Not relevant to the issue at hand but struggling to understand how you completely forgot that you posted about this (at length) yesterday!

If you knew how much my head has been up my arse over all this you would understand. I've been in tears most of yesterday and had to dig out the (prescribed) benzos

@HollowTalk of course not! That doesn't mean the op is innocent either though does it?

She does sound like she could be hard work but that isn't an excuse for bad management either imo.

@immersivereader

If she started effing and blinding after that small incident it's not surprising she hasn't progressed.

How long has she been with the company?

Just over a year. She completely lost it in the meeting, which makes me feel someone vindicated that I am not the one who has acted unreasonably. I've apologised if there was a misunderstanding over her role as note taker etc. But the way she spoke to me afterwards was not acceptable and I have every right to raise it.

Anyway I suppose I will just have to muddle on and see what happens, just act as professionally and calmly as I can I guess. At least I know what she is like now. But the laughing at her after the restaurant incident seems like some sort of paranoia? (I didn't laugh at her btw and can't remember anything that would even relate to this)

This was not some team meeting about how to spend the kitty money.

Regardless of what she's done, this sentence tells me everything I need to know about you and it isn't positive.

If it wasn't appropriate for her to participate in the meeting and you were concerned she would do so, you should have said no to her note taking. If she had a burning desire to improve on her shorthand or writing minutes then I'm sure you could have discussed other opportunities with her. By saying yeah sure and then phoning and saying that I'm not surprised she felt a little bit aggrieved. If she was effing and blinding in a meeting with other managers and no one did anything then you all sound shit to be honest.

She swore in a meeting with her boss and the level above that, surely that's grounds for a written warning at least. She sounds awful but part of being a manager - in fact most of being a manager- is putting your big girl pants on and dealing with situations. In this case document the outcome of the meeting taking a note of the swearing as well. You need to get her on a PIP for attitude asap.

I thought she knew she was just note taking - before the meeting she was trying to take over the management of the case in terms of who we should involve etc - and doing this in quite a forceful way which probably made me resist... and she may have picked up on this.

In hindsight I should have said no to the note -taking, but I hadn't worked with her long enough to predict how she'd react and that she'd want to get more involved than what I thought she would

@rookiemere

She swore in a meeting with her boss and the level above that, surely that's grounds for a written warning at least. She sounds awful but part of being a manager - in fact most of being a manager- is putting your big girl pants on and dealing with situations. In this case document the outcome of the meeting taking a note of the swearing as well. You need to get her on a PIP for attitude asap.

Thanks @rookiemere, so I am a 'rookie' to management would you say I need to much of the time just let things go over my head? I'm worried about setting a precedent in terms of what I accept/don't accept and I would never speak to my boss the way she spoke to me -so how do you get that balance between letting things go and taking action?

If, in a matter of less than a month, you are crying and reaching for Benzodiazepines, you aren't coping with the job. That much is obvious.

@Pascal80

If, in a matter of less than a month, you are crying and reaching for Benzodiazepines, you aren't coping with the job. That much is obvious.

I'm not coping, that is true. I'm fucking devastated.

I'd say you need to let less go if anything and pull her up any time she disrespects you in a major fashion.

So tomorrow get her in and say you'd like to have a chat now that everything has calmed down, let's draw a line under the whole meeting incident but she must not use profanity in work meetings and if she does then going forward that would be a written warning.

Sounds like you need to manage her out and she can probably do that by herself but you need to appear to be completely professional at all times, don't engage emotionally at all.

[quote Unreasonabubble]**@JorisBohnson2* - my manager has basically told her she has to work for me or look for another job*

There is a reason why you got the job and she didn't...

Your Manager has your back. Take heart from that.[/quote]
This is all you can ask for.

Managing some people is tricky just because of their personalities. Management is tough generally. Ask for a course on managing people for the first time if your company offers that - or if not do some reading around it, and managing difficult people.

@Pascal80

If, in a matter of less than a month, you are crying and reaching for Benzodiazepines, you aren't coping with the job. That much is obvious.

Alternatively, as with most people in new jobs, it will take her a while to find her feet and adapt more quickly to the personalities, strengths and weaknesses of those she is managing.

I’m currently managing someone like this. It’s emotionally hard work and you do start to wonder if you’re in some alternative reality.

My only advice is try to continue to respond professionally (which you have) but also don’t allow your boundaries to be walked all over and try not to give it headspace. Eventually she will move on to being deeply offended by someone else or more likely get fired and/or leave in a huff.

Don’t fame the flames of her drama and reduce your involvement (mentally and emotionally as well as practically) to the same as you spend on any other direct reports.

For things like her being rude, say “that comes across as rude”, then move on.

What is happening to you is sociology 101.

Time to get a few things straight in your own mind.

1. You have not done anything to her to make her want to leave.
2. She is playing a victim.

Next, what is happening to you happens to everyone who takes on a leadership position. It feels personal to you - its not - its a universal thing which follows a familiar pattern.

Here goes:
-New leader comes in.
-New leader is challenged by someone/s negativity.
-New leader must stand their ground but this is the painful bit because its when it gets rocky. Challengers will either pipe down or leave.
-New leader needs to make some 'gains' connected to the business/organisation to consolidate position as leader (this is a status thing). You can only achieve this if you keep your head level and focused on the work - and not be distracted by the negative/manipulate challenger.

Play everything with a straight bat. Do not talk about anyone behind their back and do everything you can to stay being clear, calm and considered.

Keep notes of your interactions with this person.

@Getyourarseofffthequattro

Well clearly not only on Mumsnet if you're upsetting people in real life.

This employee sounds unhinged. I can’t imagine any scenario ever where I would openly criticise my manager in that way to their face, swear in a call with two of my superiors, and declare to my boss‘s boss that I refuse to work with my manager anymore. I literally can’t imagine being anything but utterly polite to my manager, or any manager, even if I didn’t like them.

If I had a grievance I would go down the proper channels in an appropriate way. The OP has been verbally abused at work and was just explaining why it wouldn’t have been appropriate for her to get involved in discussions at this particular meeting. I’m not sure why you took that so personally but it really didn’t seem like the intention of the OP was to belittle you.

I’ve been in a very similar situation to you OP. My guess is that she’s jealous of you and the position that you hold. She sees you as an easy target probably because you are a decent person and because you are new to the organisation and to the role. In my case the member of staff effectively bullied me out of the job - which is what I think had been her intention all along. My manager at the time supported me when this woman had a blow out at me and subjected me to a verbal assault but she left and the dynamics of the team changed for the worse after that. It sounds like your manager is being supportive of you which is really good. If you can try not to let this stupid person bully you out of your job like I was. You have as much right to be there as she does. I would start taking notes of meetings and your interactions with her to cover yourself. Make a record of what’s happened so far and note down as much detail as possible, dates, copies of emails etc. Be very careful of the wording you use in your correspondence with her.

V surprised about the responses on here.

Why would people get offended if their boss just told them to take notes and not make suggestions? At least she did it before the meeting and not embarrassed the person during the meeting in front of senior people. Sure - the junior may have other ideas etc. - and may be right - but you just have to go with how your boss wants to play it… that’s the nature of hierarchies at work. If you want to change things, get promoted into a senior position, then make the changes you want. A bit weird to lose your cool over a small comment - and in front of your boss’s boss.

OP - just try to remain calm and neutral. Personally, I’d just try to pretend it didn’t happen and just try and move on. But obviously get seniors involved at further whiffs of trouble as you wouldn’t want junior claiming unfair treatment etc.

In HR, a common - and great - way to learn is to note take for a meeting which is being supported by a more senior HR professional.
I absolutely agree it would have been inappropriate to input to the meeting in her capacity as note taker.
Hindsight is great but I would have done a pre brief with her then a case review after to maximise the learning. The pre brief could have involved her suggestions and your explanation as to why you choose a different route- so she can learn.
I'd be pissed off by your attitude 'you do know you're just note taking' and feel belittled and that my input wasn't valued. You promised development and she's hurt.
Having said that, teams need time to develop and you need time to establish a critical friend relationship.
You work in HR, what would you advise a line manager who came to you with this issue? Try and take a step back and view this less personally. Address the swearing. Suggest that someone else to do mediation between you. Offer OH support.
It's not great that you're taking sleeping tablets to cope. HR is hard work and you may need time to develop a thicker skin or more effective coping strategies. Don't be afraid to ask you manager for a management mentor or for her honest opinion on how the situation was managed so you can learn too

One of them was a bit whingey and said she'd not been given development opportunities in the past, I said I'd develop her but put together a proper plan once I'd been in post a little while and done her PDR which would be in the new year.

This was your first mistake. She probably feels like you’re not that interested in helping her develop and therefore she’s trying to assert herself. I think you’ve antagonised the situation by phoning her up to remind her she’s merely the note taker, that’s very poor management.

You need to take the emotion out of the situation and realise that in all likelihood this person is not your enemy. Appalling advice on here about written warnings and managing people out how about actually manage the situation first!

OP I manage a huge team and have been a manager for over 20 years. I have two pieces of advice. 1 - You have to learn to manage people in such a way that they feel valued, and that is every single person at every level. If someone is in the meeting then their contribution is valued even if you don't like it / agree with it. Be gracious. Secondly, be able to cope with criticism, tricky people, emotional responses etc. It's not personal it's the job. You can draw the boundaries and make the decisions but you can't make people like it or you and that is ok, comes with the territory.

@JorisBohnson2

Nope only happened yesterday. First time posting *@Suprima*

OP, I think you’ve got much bigger problems than work if you genuinely can’t remember posting a thread about this so recently. 👀

@whatamilookingfor

OP I manage a huge team and have been a manager for over 20 years. I have two pieces of advice. 1 - You have to learn to manage people in such a way that they feel valued, and that is every single person at every level. If someone is in the meeting then their contribution is valued even if you don't like it / agree with it. Be gracious. Secondly, be able to cope with criticism, tricky people, emotional responses etc. It's not personal it's the job. You can draw the boundaries and make the decisions but you can't make people like it or you and that is ok, comes with the territory.

Completely agree. I think you’ve probably made this person feel that you don’t value their development (putting it off with no clear date) and are keen to remind them of their place in the pecking order.