To the non-vaxxers who work for the NHS- do we have a leg to stand on?

[LMonkey]

So it's looking like vaccines will become mandatory for all NHS workers from April next year...where on earth can we go fro here?
I really dont want to get in to a vaccine debate. I have strong feelings as to why I don't want the vaccine. I'm a med sec and don't see any patients any way, or go anywhere near them. But regardless of this I strongly feel NOBODY should be forced to have any vaccine. Do we have a leg to stand on? I mean it's not lawful to force an employee to have a vaccine but if the government make it compulsory for nhs staff is there any way round it do you think? This really is causing me enormous amounts of stress. I really don't know what to do (please don't anyone say "get the vaccine"). I'd love to hear from others in the same boat or from a legal standpoint.

@Coyoacan

How horrible all the posts here are. It is not choice when you have to lose your job. I despair of the English and how willingly people give up their freedoms and I say that as someone who is vaccinated

Agree entirely. While I'm delighted and grateful to have had the vaccine, nobody should be forced into this situation.

OP, I'm sorry, I don't know enough about the legalities involved. I find it alarming that people's consent is being impinged upon like this.

You will not be the only one, by any means. I would consult ACAS, CAB, or a union if you have one, in the first instance.

The good news is that the job market is great out there at the moment so it should be easy enough to find another job. Don't waste your energy thinking of ways to 'fight it' it is a job requirement that you are refusing to fulfil and that is that really. Get your CV done and get applying. Just maybe don't mention you are leaving because you refuse to be vaccinated, it will change how some people look at you.

@LMonkey do you have contact with colleagues who have contact with patients?

I haven't read the whole thread, but my view is that it should be a choice to get the vaccine at this point in time.

I don't agree with the gov making it mandatory for NHS/Carers.
These are two areas where we need more staff, not less and thanks to the shitstorm if Brexit we are already massively understaffed. I think the tories are trying to win votes back and that's the only reason they are doing this.
Most of us are vaccinated, but I respect other people's views about the vaccine.

(BTW I am double vaccinated and due to get my booster next week - but I'm not NHS/Carer)

I don’t think vaccines should be mandatory for everyone as I believe in bodily autonomy.
However.
If you are working for the state health body that is on its knees in the face of a badly-managed pandemic and there is a highly effective vaccine, then it is entirely fair for your employer to demand that you have the vaccine or find another job.

I fully expect there to be a uturn extension on this. I don't know what sort of numbers we're talking about, but the NHS can't afford to sack even a percentage of one percent if its staff.

The staff will find alternative work more easily than the NHS will replace them.

@Chloemol

You are not being forced to do anything.

You are more than welcome to find a job somewhere else

Having the vaccine is exactly the same as saying you need a clean drivers licence to do a job, when you don’t have one, or yo7 need a certain qualification

If you don’t meet the criteria you look elsewhere

A clean driving licence is not comparable to having something injected in to your body that has potential for severe side effects.

@Coyoacan

How horrible all the posts here are. It is not choice when you have to lose your job. I despair of the English and how willingly people give up their freedoms and I say that as someone who is vaccinated

Some of us have had the vaccine as we know we don't have much choice. The harsh reality is there's risk to everything in life. There's far more danger to getting covid than people going on a whim and not taking the vaccine!

It's complex so there's people like OP I can see her point. Flip side is.... the implications there's many many and who is picking up the slack? The companies if OP gets sick or infects OTHERS... Will she expect to be paid sick pay? It's the knock on effect what about the poor nursing team who have had the vaccine and end up looking after the unvaccinated patients? Life is unfair

I will be bloody passed off if we lock down again due to people who cannot be arsed to pull together as a nation! Lots of us have reservations and we have taken the vax FFS.

I feel for you op. Even though I am strongly in favour of the vaccine, the fact it has come into play after you have started your job is in many ways unfair. However, it is a health and safety issue - just like it was to isolate if infected. The fact of the matter is you could be a danger to many other people. You just have to to with the majority of scientific studies for this, just like anything else.

All I can suggest is speaking with your manager about this and list your points you've put here.

Are you in a uinion op? Have you joined any of the fb groups about this?

Unfortunately you’re wasting your time posting here. The issue is now political and despite all the evidence proving that the vaxxed can still pass it on the majority will support you losing your job for declining.

There’s thread after thread here from people moaning that they’re double jabbed but they’ve now got covid.

@Babdoc

cptartapp, not strictly true with regards to Hep B. Surgeons need to be immunised to protect patients - a hep positive surgeon who punctures his glove with a needle or scalpel while inside a patient’s body cavity, can bleed and infect the patient. So it provides protection in both directions. Why are you so anti immunisation, OP? Your employer has a duty of care towards you, and as they are asking you to work in a high risk building containing infected patients- possibly undiagnosed, especially in A and E and outpatient clinics - where Covid may be circulating in the aircon, it seems reasonable that they require you to be protected from death/serious disease by immunisation.

So on that basis...no unvaccinated patients will be allowed in either?

If the vaccine protects the individual, surely the onus is on the unvaccinated individual that they want to take the risk of exposing themselves to covid without being vaccinated - and that is their choice.

I'm unvaccinated, have had covid and recovered fully - was a mild illness. No inclination to take a vaccine against it whatsoever.

Wow, can't believe how unkind most of these posts have been. What people seem to be forgetting is that when you took your job there was no requirement to have a Covid vaccine. You are not doing anything wrong - looking at the figures in Ireland & Germany at the moment vaccinations (and vaccine passports) are unfortunately not managing to stop people catching or transmitting the virus so please don't feel bad. I think a lot of people will look back at how they spoke to others and behaved at some point in the future and feel ashamed. I hope people do fight back and mandatory vaccines are banned as there are no place for them. xx

Thank God you're here, @JassyRadlett 🧪🧫📊📉📈🧬🩺💉🤩

@nojudgementhere

Wow, can't believe how unkind most of these posts have been. What people seem to be forgetting is that when you took your job there was no requirement to have a Covid vaccine. You are not doing anything wrong - looking at the figures in Ireland & Germany at the moment vaccinations (and vaccine passports) are unfortunately not managing to stop people catching or transmitting the virus so please don't feel bad. I think a lot of people will look back at how they spoke to others and behaved at some point in the future and feel ashamed. I hope people do fight back and mandatory vaccines are banned as there are no place for them. xx

This.

A clean driving licence is not comparable to having something injected in to your body that has potential for severe side effects.

Though being required to drive regularly for your work probably presents a higher level of risk than being required to take one of the available Covid vaccines.

I would consult ACAS, CAB, or a union if you have one, in the first instance

I would add checking your home insurance to see if it covers employment legal advice or pay for it privately.

Personally I think you’re wrong, but ultimately you’re not going to get unbiased advice on MN and I suspect it’s impossible to accurately advise you either way until it’s formally legally challenged anyway.

Then find another job. It's part of the requirements of the job, as it should be as it's the health service and they have to set and example AND not contribute to making others ill unnecessarily, so find something else if you don't want to meet the requirements.

...hopefully it won’t be too long before everyone in every job needs to be vaccinated, and it catches up with you at some point
That seems to be a common sentiment among people who've been vaccinated for Covid19. I'm starting to wonder if some of the Covid19 vaccines employ some amazing new technology that acts on people to make them feel really vindictive.

@LMonkey

How am I not being forced?? How easy do you think it is to just go out and get another job?? I have kids to look after, a house to pay for. I've worked my arse off for the NHS for the past 10 years and now I am effectively having a gun held to my head. Not all of us have a partner who can financially support an entire family. Why bother replying if you're going to be so small minded? Ive been feeling really low about this and i actually thought I might hear from some supportive people on mumsnet, but no. You've clicked on this thread to have a go at someone because you aren't capable of seeing it from another person's point of view. I'm done

It’s probably not easy to get another job and given that you have kids and a house to pay for just get the bloody Vax unless there is a medical reason why you can’t I’m sure they will be able to replace you with someone who has had it

Op I agree nobody should be forced to have a vaccine but why wouldn’t you get the vaccine ? The only people I know who’ve refused the vaccine is because they wrongly believe the vaccine isn’t tested properly / will stop them for getting pregnant . Now you sound like a intelligent woman and I’m guessing that you work for the nhs you’ll have done some research so what reason is it other than you don’t think you should .
I’m really interested to know because these anti vaccine people can’t seem to give a valid reason. Then will you may some sympathy about your job .

I had to have the Hepatitis B vaccine before I worked as a nurse many moons ago. It was to protect me but also patients. I could either get it, or find another job. Fair enough I think.

@FlorenciaFlora

Are you in a uinion op? Have you joined any of the fb groups about this?

Unfortunately you’re wasting your time posting here. The issue is now political and despite all the evidence proving that the vaxxed can still pass it on the majority will support you losing your job for declining.

There’s thread after thread here from people moaning that they’re double jabbed but they’ve now got covid.

The Union won't do anything. HEP B is also compulsory to work in the NHS. Well it is definitely for the nursing staff!

I'm a paramedic and I have a history of immune thrombocytopenia, and on a good day my platelets count sits right at the bottom of the normal range. I was heavily exposed to covid via patients and colleagues before vaccines were a thing, and had no issues, so on balance have decided not to have the vaccine and risk screwing my platelet count up even further (and there is only a 50% chance of full recovery even with steroid treatment of this happens).

I understand way this was initially a controversial choice, but now the evidence is clear that the vaccines have a limited impact on spread of covid, I really don't see why I should be forced to have the vaccine. I LFT before shifts and wear the appropriate level of ppe to all jobs, I also wouldn't attend work with obvious covid symptoms (and therefore high viral load).

I really think at this stage it is a personal choice to vaccinate/booster, and that applies to NHS staff as well.

@Coyoacan

How horrible all the posts here are. It is not choice when you have to lose your job. I despair of the English and how willingly people give up their freedoms and I say that as someone who is vaccinated

But assuming OP doesn’t want to contract and potentially die of covid, she is essentially relying on the rest of the nation to get the vaccine in order to protect themselves and her. It is selfish behaviour. I’ve just walked away from my hairdresser for this reason. Whilst I’m vaccinated, I don’t want to catch it from her and contract it onto a vulnerable person who is immuno compromised and cannot vaccinate.

Sorry you're done, op. I'm not in the same boat (double-vaccinated and boosted and flu to boot, and definitely of an age for that to be sensible); but I do know one or two people who feel as you do, and really sympathise with the stress you are feeling. This is a genuinely unprecedented situation, very under-debated, and it does no favours to anyone to treat it as if it is a simple matter of black or white. Now shoot me too.