how is your workplace dealing with employees who have given up their childcare while WFH

[SunshineyDay1]

I have name changed for this but interested in people's opinions.

having convened a number of calls from 3-4pm, it is now clear to me that there are a lot of people who no longer have childcare at home. At work, we have a hybrid system but with the understanding that if you are needed in or at a certain time, you will be available. Last week we had a really important client call and 2 members of the team were clearly doing the school run at the same time.

I spoke to both afterwards and one said in a quite arsey fashion that 'everyone knows not to schedule calls between 3-4pm anymore' !!

we have another firm in the same building as us - a big listed company - and I was chatting to one of the managers there as they haven't compelled people to come back yet but are monitoring it and they said they have noticed the same thing and are having a meeting this week on how to deal with it.

I don't have young kids any more but do people really think this is acceptable? Surely if you have young children and have a job that is essentially 9-5 or thereabouts, you can't just dump the childcare and expect to be able to work as well as you did when you were in the office? what happens when workplaces compel people to come back?

just interested in how people are dealing with this

Work are reasonable with us, if someone needs to do the school run as a parent is isolating but can keep an eye on the child when they're home, or if the child is isolating then that's fine and people work around it. As an ongoing thing, not so much which is fair. I suspect many workplaces will have people back into the office if its causing issues.

particularly interested in people who say their workplaces are more productive when they are WFH. I can honestly say ours is not and I think individuals may feel they are more productive but as a whole, that's not always the case and doesn't always contribute to the business as a whole being in a better place.

I feel the same. I think individuals may be more productive, but that's because they focus solely on their own work and ignore emails and meeting requests from others, which mean the organisation as a whole (and the people who rely on their input) are less productive.

I also hear from many staff who love wfh, because it allows them to do things like spend time with the children after school, pop out to play golf and work flexibly. Some people are clearly taking the p* (one colleague has time to go out and play golf every day but yet hasn't responded to any emails I've sent him in about 3 months), but because it just means other people pick up the slack, it can easily go unnoticed. Weak management (in my case) does not help.

particularly interested in people who say their workplaces are more productive when they are WFH. I can honestly say ours is not and I think individuals may feel they are more productive but as a whole, that's not always the case and doesn't always contribute to the business as a whole being in a better place.

Our stats bear this out. Workflow numbers show an increase in resolved queries, a reduction in the amount of time taken to deal, and an increase in NPS score from external stakeholders and clients. Anecdotal feedback from externals is also very positive.

However whilst my employer is very flexible, everyone concerns recognises that it is a perk and based on trust and delivery. There are competitors who pay more, but who operate more rigid working policies. Consequently the people I work with know that everyone has to do their bit to make it work. Anyone who doesn't tends to be found out quite quickly. This has been rare over the last 6 months though as the turnover at my employer is very low and on the occasion that a vacancy does come up, there are always lots of applicants as it's known as having a really good workplace culture.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

I'm also not seeing that the people that now stop at 3, take an hour off to do the school run and get their DC settled at home, before returning to work, are actually doing more work than I am

It's a shame you feel that way. Are you waiting for work from them that they are no longer delivering?

I'm ft (and take my lunch break in time to do the schoolrun). I monitor my hours and consistently work 40+ per week. My tasks are deadline dependent- its simply not possible to PT by stealth in my role.

I'd be incredibly disappointed if you were a colleague of mine holding this opinion of me.

If you work your full hours, then you are not the type of colleague I'm referring to.

I'm talking about the ones who start later than me (I start at 8, they start at 9.30 after morning school run), stop at 3pm to pick up DC, take at least an hour off work, don't really do anything useful afterwards except for answering a few emails, and still finish around the time they would have done had they not taken time off. As I work for a company where a certain amount of extra work is expected, there are some days, where I end up working more hours than they do and yet they get paid full time wages and I get paid part time wages. I've been very tempted once or twice just to revert to full time hours but carry on working exactly the same as I do now as it seems that "being vaguely" around is all that is required after 3pm. But I won't because I think it's massively unprofessional.

Our working from home policy is that if you are working with dependants at home then you should have appropriate care available to meet their needs so you can work with minimal interruptions. What this means in reality is that people with children about 6 and under still have all their childcare in place. Those with older children who can safely occupy themselves have ditched after school club a few years earlier than they would if they were In the office.

Our workplace is hybrid but we could be called in form meetings etc so need to be able to travel to the office on all contracted days

We have stipulated those working from home are to find childcare during their working hours in the same manner they would if they were in the office. We said this from very early on (only making exceptions when schools were closed during lockdowns). We don't experience the issues you face OP

I used to finish early on a Thursday to be able to do the school run. Since WFH, ive agreed with my employer that I will work a full day Thursday because I can do the school run, put them on iPads and finish my last hour or so of work.

I take a shorter lunch to accommodate this, but because I live so close to school, I can actually do the school run in less time than some of my colleagues spend on their fag break (and they have 4-5 of them a day, which is more than another lunch break). Noone bats an eyelid at them, so I don't give a shit about what people think of me doing the school run when it's been agreed with my employer. They even wrote it into my contract that I do 4 full days, with Thursday's at home to protect my ability to do the school run, in case were ever required bakc in the office full time - hasn't happened yet, we're still only officially expected in half the time.

My DC are older now but I don't think it would have been fair on them,or even safe to WFH with the DC there while thy were under say 10

@user1487194234

My DC are older now but I don't think it would have been fair on them,or even safe to WFH with the DC there while thy were under say 10

I agree, and I also don’t think it’s best to put them on iPads just so the parent can make up the time to get paid for a full day.

@SunshineyDay1 - I think that whatever you decide, it was completely unacceptable that they didn't tell you about the client call in advance.

I think "it depends" If the manager knows about it and is ok then that's fine but its a bit CF er-ish to just decide that its ok to take a non negotiable lump out of the working day even if the person pays it back by working later or starting earlier.
I used to WFH and flexibly for years. I was working half time and could pretty much do a lot of my work as and when I wanted to provided I kept to deadlines. The payback was that when I was needed evenings, weekends or the odd night to train night staff, I did it with no unscoal hours payment.

We work flex and don't have core hours so it's quite normal to see people's diaries blocked out for certain sections of the day, I do school run Thursdays and Fridays, my boss does it too (not sure how many days as I've never actually checked). My work has a habit of booking meetings during lunch breaks so I don't see what it matters, if it becomes an issue we will introduce core hours I imagine.

I work for a FTSE100 company and work at 80%FTE and recently changed hours to finish at 3 each day (work probably ever other evening just because things are needing done). When I go to office kids go to after school club as it’s an hour commute.

I did say to my boss recently at least I don’t take the p!ss and am actually only being paid to work til 3! So many people go and get their kids at 3 and then carry on working (people getting 100% salaries). Personally I like to either be working or looking after the kids I wouldn’t do a good job of either trying to do both!

Informal meeting outlining the problem and managements approach to resolve it. Follow up letter with bullet points of contracted hours, what was said, and consequences if not conforming.

Yes this is an issue that drives me mental. Or it was in my old job anyway. 9-5 with no flexibility. Very busy with client calls. Half the team disappeared at 3 for the school run. They would log back in and piss around answering some emails half heartedly to show that they are there, but they suddenly aren’t available to take calls from clients (because realistically you can’t be giving legal advice to clients with a nagging 4/5 year old in the background). So that fell to muggins here, who kept her wraparound childcare in place.

A few people have cited ‘lack of childcare’ as a reason not to return to our office. It didn’t fly with my manager who was a single parent and as she said she spent tens of thousands making sure her kids were taken care of as she has an office based role.

Agree with what someone said upthread - individuals wfh can feel more productive in that they tick off more items on their to do list. But this doesn’t necessarily translate into bigger picture productivity, give opportunities for spontaneous collaboration, etc which are essential (and very productive in their own way) for a lot of workplaces. So saying you are ‘more productive’ working from home is only going to a partial picture.

And in terms of people disappearing 3-4 for school pick up - I think it’s an interesting question of whose flexibility is prioritised, and whose isn’t. As already mentioned upthread it’s really difficult to schedule meetings when some people don’t start work til 10, others finish at 4, some have 12-1 or 1-2 blocked out for lunch etc. I think the danger is when people with kids look as though they’re taking priority, at the expense of others. So for example I might be happy to work straight through 9-3 then take my ‘lunch break’ during the school-run, but I shouldn’t then expect my childless colleague who really likes to get outside for a walk 12-1 to accommodate this, any more than I should always be expected to accommodate their preference.

@hennybeans

I'm a sahm and I've been doing the school run for 10+ years now. I've noticed so many new faces of parents doing the school run who never used to before. Especially men. I imagine they are wfh now and can do the school run for the first time. Actually, I noticed at our 4:30 swimming lesson that I am the only mum bringing DC. Every other parent is a man. I commented to DH about it last week because before covid it was maybe 90% women bringing DC.

I don't know if the partners of these men have just told them right, I've done it for so many years. You're home, your turn. Or if the men want to. But there is definitely a difference. I don't know what their work think about it. My DH WFH and could do the school run in a pinch, but not regularly.

Obviously women are also leaving their desk for the school run too. It just struck me how many men were now around that I have never seen before.

That’s strikes me as a very positive thing 👍

@user1487194234

My DC are older now but I don't think it would have been fair on them,or even safe to WFH with the DC there while thy were under say 10

Depends on the individual child.

I have family members who work and worked shifts.

They would be asleep while their kids were in the house.

Most of the kids aged 7+ would be fine if left alone for a couple of hours, while a few individual kids had to have someone keeping an eye on them until they were secondary age. The same kids who couldn't be left alone where also the ones you had to watch on the internet so no leaving devices in their hands without checking regularly what they were doing.

I really think it depends on your role.

I think if there is no reason someone has to be in the office/available to clients constantly then allowing them to manage school runs (or whatever else it might be) can only be conducive to a better relationship with that worker.

I honestly think people are more willing to put extra effort in if they feel they are treated well by their employer. Even before COVID, colleagues with kids wouldn't be available 3.30ish because of the school run, or they would dial in from the car. They always made the effort and would dial in ASAP if they could.

I do a mix of wfh and office.

Tbh my biggest problem is the impact covid has had on childcare availability - locally many childminders had to find alternative incomes and haven't returned to child minding (totally understandably) and those that are still going are full due to high demand. The local after school provision also closed permanently because of the pandemic and there is now no local provision for age 7 upwards.

@user1487194234

My DC are older now but I don't think it would have been fair on them,or even safe to WFH with the DC there while thy were under say 10

I don't really agree with this, I'd say many children 4+ are capable of being at home with a parent while the parent works for an hour/hour and a half after school.

I don't think it's unfair on them to be in their own home with their toys, colouring, films, books etc and be asked to play/do something themselves for a couple of hours max while you're nearby to keep an eye on them.

Children are able to understand that sometimes an adult has to focus on something else and can't always be playing with them.

My eldest is 7. She’s generally quite sensible but does not give me a minute’s peace while I’m trying to work (understands I’m busy but gives zero fucks). If I picked her up at 3.15 that would pretty much be my working day over.

My workplace has always been flexible. For example, people don’t have to work 9-5, they can work 9-3 and 4-6 if they want to take a break to do the school run and have older children who can take care of themselves once back home. This was true before Covid and it of course remains true after. No official permission is required, we are adults and are trusted to manage our own schedule and put in our total required hours.

We block our unavailable times in Outlook. The only problems arise when people schedule meetings without actually checking availability for required attendees.

I wanted to add that people are still expected to have childcare in place for blocks of time. Even older kids who are mostly good for an hour or two after school need care in the summer holidays when full days end up with a tendency towards Interruption. But the workplace has to be flexible for letting employees provide transport to and from that care because the start and stop times aren’t always ideal.