how is your workplace dealing with employees who have given up their childcare while WFH

[SunshineyDay1]

I have name changed for this but interested in people's opinions.

having convened a number of calls from 3-4pm, it is now clear to me that there are a lot of people who no longer have childcare at home. At work, we have a hybrid system but with the understanding that if you are needed in or at a certain time, you will be available. Last week we had a really important client call and 2 members of the team were clearly doing the school run at the same time.

I spoke to both afterwards and one said in a quite arsey fashion that 'everyone knows not to schedule calls between 3-4pm anymore' !!

we have another firm in the same building as us - a big listed company - and I was chatting to one of the managers there as they haven't compelled people to come back yet but are monitoring it and they said they have noticed the same thing and are having a meeting this week on how to deal with it.

I don't have young kids any more but do people really think this is acceptable? Surely if you have young children and have a job that is essentially 9-5 or thereabouts, you can't just dump the childcare and expect to be able to work as well as you did when you were in the office? what happens when workplaces compel people to come back?

just interested in how people are dealing with this

I suppose its role dependent too.

Someone who answers/deals with customer calls, and the line is open 9-5, needs to work those hours

Someone who balances the books each month is more likely to be able to flex their hours

Someone who responds to out of hours issues presumably wouldn't be around at 3-4pm anyways as their shift starts later

I manage a team and I know full well that a couple of them do the school run at around 3-3.30ish. And it's fine; the children are older so they're not disturbing the parent who WFH, and we are all at home now permanently.

However it's a give and take, and in return I do expect that if there is an immovable meeting at 3pm, they will need to make alternative arrangements for picking up their children. They are being paid to work between 9-5.30, in the same way that if I have a meeting booked in when I'd 'usually' take my lunch, I will adjust my day accordingly.

There's flexibility and there's taking the piss and I think that refusing to attend something which is part of your paid role because you don't want to pay for childcare tips over into taking the piss.

You're bigger issue is communication.

Where I work it's fine for people to do school pick up and to shift hours around. It wouldn't be acceptable to be distracted and out and about when doing a client call. Your colleagues should have let you know that the time wasn't convenient and either asked for a reschedule or made it clear they would be unable to attend/on mute due to not being at desk.

You need to set ground rules if you decide to continue with a WFH flexible working approach.

I can't work from home, as I work in hospitality.

But dh works for a large company in London. They are doing a mix; 2-3 days in office and the rest from home. If they don't have a meeting, he can occasionally do the school run, but only once in a blue moon. Otherwise, someone else (me, in our case) has to do it. He did say one of his colleagues has been on the phone while doing the school run, but again, just a one off and only a quick chat between colleagues rather than a proper meeting. So I think what you're describing in the op is not the case everywhere.

My employer has a balance. The default is that we avoid arranging non-urgent meetings between 8.30-9.30 and 3-4. And it's generally assumed that people may be less available during those times, so not to be surprised if they are in the car when they answer a call.

In return it is clearly understood that if a meeting is scheduled during those times with at least 5 days' notice and is clearly marked as non-negotiable, that you will arrange for childcare so that you can attend without any interruptions.

We have been running like this for the last 6 months and it's worked really well. Meeting organisers give plenty of notice for 'big' meetings which need full attention and attendance, but we don't sweat the small stuff for things like 121s, catch-ups and so on which can be scheduled outside of pinch-point time like school drop-off/pick-up.

Productivity has also improved as people have the flexibility to schedule their lives, and feel trusted to get on with things. Feedback from our employee survey last month was very positive including from staff without dependent children.

Whilst I can see what a huge benefit this is to parents without childcare, those who do have childcare or are childfree are the ones getting the rough end of the stick where I work. Our work world doesn't stop turning so meetings go ahead and others have to pick up the slack, on top of their own workload.

We are an international team so it's hard enough fitting meetings in around timezones without people adding in further restrictions. People try to be understanding but it seems to always be the same people taking advantage.

I'm now permanently wfh. I can work anytime between 6:30am and 8pm. I do not have core hours. My DH works shift work.
Whilst I can flex my hours to suit my home life, I do still utilise childcare. Because I cannot give my full attention to work when I am also looking after a 4yo. I put my DS in after school club a few days a week so I can work later (and longer) on those days. And then on the days he's not in after school club I can work shorter days. Luckily our after school club is very flexible and can be booked the day before or cancelled by lunchtime on the day so I don't lose money, and I can swap things round if I need to.
I think it's different if a child is old enough to entertain themselves and understands not to bother you. And my work were great when there were school bubbles as they allowed me to work at the same time as caring and expected my productivity to be lower, but I know there is give and take with the job and I can't take the piss by constantly doing both jobs at once.

I work part time (4 days across 5) for this reason. It means I can legitimately down tools for an hour or two in the afternoon to pick up DC and spend a bit of time with them after school. Or if I’m in the office, leave around 3pm to pick them up. I always log on again after. Works very well for me.
So I can understand what other posters are saying about part time by stealth. I earn 80% of a full salary to be able to have this flexibility. Since COVID some people are taking the full salary but expecting the same flexibility.
I can’t get too worked up about it though as I’m entirely justified in doing what I do because I am genuinely part time and this arrangement is agreed. I’m up front about it with clients as well. If I was FT but trying to wing it I would find it very stressful and I feel it’s unprofessional.
I’m in a senior role in the city.

My friend is always had a hybrid option.

WFH 3/5 days.

They always accepted that meetings would be scheduled outside of school run times and if that was unavoidable she would make alternative arrangements for the child.

If companies want to retain good hardworking experienced employees (especially female ones) they need to be flexible but maintain expectations of hours worked.

Oh and my DC are tweens so quite capable of looking after themselves after school and getting on with their homework. But it’s nice to be able to meet them from school, chat about their day and be able to ferry them to various activities when needed. Without worrying that I’m doing that on the company’s time.

We have told our staff they have till half term to sort out childcare or officially request a change in hours through HR. That may of may not be accepted.

It's not seen as fair that some are paying £20 a day wrap around care per child while others are paying nothing & leaving meetings to pick up their children then distracted till close of play at 5. This was causing resentment.

We are perfectly OK about it as one off, awaiting covid test result, if covid means can't go to childminder/afterschool club is closed but expect proof.

My company has flexibility to choose your hours, so if you wanted a long lunch break because you were going to the gym or whatever, that’s fine. If you want to take half an hour to pick up the kids that’s also fine.
However, you are supposed to work that around your work commitments. So with colleagues you might be able to negotiate a different meeting time if there’s just the two of you, but for client meetings or larger meetings that you are expected to attend you can’t say “no sorry, that doesn’t fit in with the hours I’d chosen today.” (Obviously this only applies within standard working hours, you aren’t forced into meetings outside of that.)

So giving up childcare completely would be foolish because there’s every chance something would come up that you are expected to attend, and “sorry I never work between 3 and 4” would absolutely not cut it.

We have a policy of during your working hours you must have childcare in place. Yes some flexibility for illness but not day to day.

Having tried to look after my toddler occasionally while he has been off child are sick I will say I can not do a full days work. I am neither a good parent nor a good employee

We have to have childcare and any change of hours has to be approved with 28 days notice. I now finish at 3:50 by not taking a lunch break, this however is a semi-permanent change authorised by my line manager. If a meeting does need to take place I’m given 7 days notice to find someone else to do the school run.

We are expected to have appropriate childcare (or children old enough to be by themselves) during all of our working hours unless they are isolating, ill or childcare has closed (eg lockdowns).

At my place we’re expected to be at home for video calls. Personal appointments ‘blocked’ in diaries, but before 4pm (end of ‘core’ hours) if more often than the odd time it’d need to be an agreed flexi work arrangement.

I think that because people who never needed or wanted to wfh and did so because there was no other option to keep the company going, there needs to be some flexibility from everyone i.e. employers and colleagues. Everyone pulled together when it was needed and that needs to be rewarded and I don't mean financially but in whatever way is required. If that means no meetings at 3pm then so be it.

I do pick up 2 days a week and try to keep my diary clear for the half hour that it takes (dc is old enough to get themselves a snack and start their homework when they get in, and older sibling is in about half an hour after we get back).

Yes, it's definitely a perk and I don't take it for granted. I arrange for someone else to pick up ds if I have to be somewhere else at that time.

On the flip side, I'm able to attend meetings that run past 5.30pm when in the past I would have had to give my apologies in order to get to afterschool care.

It would certainly not be appropriate to do this if my dc was of an age that they needed me to be present but I'm able to get on with my work the second I get back through the door if necessary.

It's good to have rules in place so that the business/colleagues are not disadvantaged, but blanket rules just because you couldn't do this if you were in the office are unnecessary. I couldn't routinely work an hour before and after my 9-5 if I was in the office (and don't on the days that I am) but my boss isn't agitating for me to log off on the dot.

I think it says a lot about an employer if they can’t be flexible these days. I tend to have my laptop open 7:30-6 and pop out to do the school run around this. I’m still working more than the 7.5 hours/day I'm contracted to. When we get back at 4, the DC watch a bit of TV or play whilst I carry on. They are upper primary though so don’t need much input, save snacks! If my employer wanted me to work 9-5, I’d do that, but I wouldn’t do any more. The current model which allows flexibility actually works in their favour.

Actually, just thought of one occasion when a senior manager got pissy about me ‘leaving early’ one day. Except I wasn’t leaving early, I’d worked solidly through from 7am - 3pm. I did point this out 🙄 Dinosaur!

thanks all - makes interesting reading

particularly interested in people who say their workplaces are more productive when they are WFH. I can honestly say ours is not and I think individuals may feel they are more productive but as a whole, that's not always the case and doesn't always contribute to the business as a whole being in a better place.

I'm not against WFH at all but I do think, particularly if you are client facing and not in admin, that you have to adapt to what your client wants and if they want a meeting at 3pm then you have a meeting at 3pm whether you like it or not.

@HunterHearstHelmsley yes and that is exactly what has been happening. A few people want to avoid school runs, some other people want different hours as they like starting early, some want to work late - you get to the point where HR has to decree something

the large firm in the same building as ours was about to send something out on this point (that no doubt would have got into the press) but then the 'plan B covid' got floated and they were concerned everyone would be back WFH at the point they were demanding they came back so they haven't done it. Will be interesting to see what happens next!

I think too many people are taking the piss “working” after school pick up - I would say before y5/6 you would struggle to get meaningful work done if there are kids at home with no other adult.

@BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz

I'm also not seeing that the people that now stop at 3, take an hour off to do the school run and get their DC settled at home, before returning to work, are actually doing more work than I am

It's a shame you feel that way. Are you waiting for work from them that they are no longer delivering?

I'm ft (and take my lunch break in time to do the schoolrun). I monitor my hours and consistently work 40+ per week. My tasks are deadline dependent- its simply not possible to PT by stealth in my role.

I'd be incredibly disappointed if you were a colleague of mine holding this opinion of me.

Of course she isn't. She's getting paid less for being part time but because her colleagues are now taking an hour or more off for the school run is ending up working just as many hours as she is but they et more money.

OP your firm sounds like they are out of the stone age.

In 2016 I was working for a firm where most people worked remotely but popped into an office one day a week or several days per month depending on where they lived in regards to the office regarded as your "main office"

We learnt as a rule not to have virtual meetings/calls around school drop off time or school pick up time.

People without childcare had kids 7+ who could entertain themselves when they arrived back home.

In team meetings it would be someone's dog rather than a child making noise e.g. to be let out, notifying a delivery.

In meetings with stakeholders you wouldn't hear any noise.

For this flexibility you would have to be flexible yourself so you would:

1. have days where you couldn't have a lunch break as you had back to back meetings from 10am - 2.30pm
2. have days where you logged on early or late to finish work so it could be handed over to someone else or to have meetings with people in different time zones.
3. be prepared to go to another office to have face-to-face meetings with different parts of the business and external clients. The person in a team who would go to those specific meetings would be the person living nearest.

This company's rules and common practice were more comprehensive that all the other companies I worked for before who also allowed remote working.

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants

I think too many people are taking the piss “working” after school pick up - I would say before y5/6 you would struggle to get meaningful work done if there are kids at home with no other adult.

I agree with this, year 6 onwards I would say.