Soooo disappointed in job applications!

[SnowfallSnowball]

Hi
I am currently shortlisting for a role and the level of applications are so disappointing. I totally understand that nowadays applications are a task in themselves but if you’re not going to take the time to read the application guidance, JD and PS why bother applying at all?

I have already seen a high number of people who have just wrote a cover letter and attached their CV when we specify no CV’s and to write a supporting statement abiding by items on the PS. Many of these applicants are already in a job so they must have applied properly to posts in the past, I don’t get it!

Any other recruiters have these issues?

Well I was sodding pissed off when I did, to the letter, read and follow the guidance on how to fill in the personal statement section. They were clear they wanted context, what you did, how and why and all that, loads of detail. Yet the person specification was huge and there was a really tight word limit on the online application.
I had extensive experience for that role and had to chose just a few good examples, using the detail they specified they needed, to fit in the word limit.
Never even got shortlisted.
I suspect the people shifting the applications gave not one stuff about the detailed guidance on writing the personal statement that HR had drafted, probably didn't know what it said, and shortlisted people who had not followed it and so had been able to better outline the relevant experience they had against the person specification.

Wish I had done that, instead of following the 'rules'.

How bizarre. If have thought checking you know to read the instructions and not mix ammonia with bleach would be more appropriate, and you know how to choose a door behind you when you leave. Then check you don't have two heads when they meet you! 😆

notanothergoodname yes, I wonder if when the word count is decided they actually take into account what info they've asked for. I had to prune and prune until it was almost meaningless to satisfy three limit imposed on the information they wanted. 🙄

Fortunately I’m senior enough in my career not to have to jump through ridiculous hoops. I simply wouldn’t spend 6 hours completing an application. What a gross waste of everyone’s time.

So you're asking employers to do more work because you can't be bothered with their application process?

Well, yes. They are the ones being paid to hire and review applications as part of their job. The applicants are expected to spend hours of their free time on it, you can see why the best people might not bother. They will either get headhunted, recommended into a role or focus on jobs that have a more straightforward process.

Reviewing CVs really doesn’t take that much time. If you must do something then make it short and specific, give me two examples of the top skills you are looking for etc.

@DoThePropeller

*So you're asking employers to do more work because you can't be bothered with their application process?*

Well, yes. They are the ones being paid to hire and review applications as part of their job. The applicants are expected to spend hours of their free time on it, you can see why the best people might not bother. They will either get headhunted, recommended into a role or focus on jobs that have a more straightforward process.

Reviewing CVs really doesn’t take that much time. If you must do something then make it short and specific, give me two examples of the top skills you are looking for etc.

You do realise that in organisations such as mine ( a big university) this is an add on to my job. I end up spending my free time on this as it's not factored into my workload at all. Reviewing a single CV might not take long but reviewing 100's does.

I need to know lots of info before I offer interviews.

@TheDevils

Just accept CVs and then if you like the look of the candidate then ask for an application to be completed. I can't be arsed to spend an evening filling in online forms, but then I'm quite happy in my current job and get a good salary so am not desperate enough to bother.

So you're asking employers to do more work because you can't be bothered with their application process?

Well yeah because the application process is clearly bollocks if they're only getting rubbish applicants and the better applicants have better ways of spending their time.

You do realise that in organisations such as mine ( a big university) this is an add on to my job

But that’s the problem for you and your employer to resolve, not for candidates to prop up with their unpaid labour.

Well yeah because the application process is clearly bollocks if they're only getting rubbish applicants and the better applicants have better ways of spending their time.

We get good quality applications on the whole ....and because we ask for a personal statement we have lots of information which means we only shortlist those we would consider offering the job. That's good practice. I've done an awful lot of recruitment and selection training and it's important that the application process is tailored to the specific job. There have been some examples of poor recruitment on this thread and a blanket 'just ask for CVs' could also be considered poor practice in certain sectors and for certain jobs.

I used to recruit careers advisers. I needed to be able to see that they could write a good personal statement. It was an important part of the job.
I'm currently recruiting for an academic role. And again, CV wouldn't be enough......

@TheDevils a personal statement is fairly standard though, alongside a CV.

@PegasusReturns

You do realise that in organisations such as mine ( a big university) this is an add on to my job

But that’s the problem for you and your employer to resolve, not for candidates to prop up with their unpaid labour.

But adding an extra level to the recruitment process is unnecessary. I know some people are struggling to understand this, but for some roles a CV just does not give enough information to be able to make a decision.

If people don't want to complete an application form for a job ( assuming it's standard practice or justifiable for the role) then that's their call.

[quote girlmom21]@TheDevils a personal statement is fairly standard though, alongside a CV. [/quote]
Not always. We specifically say no CVs. If you submit a CV it won't get read.

if people don't want to complete an application form for a job ( assuming it's standard practice or justifiable for the role) then that's their call

Indeed. But the whole point of this thread is that requests to fill in application forms are not generating the applications that a poster had hoped for.

If you are confident that your application requests only the minimum info you need to make a decision to interview then great. Your process is not part of the problem. If your application asks you to write 1000 words on why a candidate would be perfect for the job/how many chairs there are in China/ or any other such bullshit that points to fit not qualification then it is.

Many posters have said they wouldn’t spend an hour plus filling in forms. Anyone recruiting should be cognisant of the same.

*If you must do something then make it short and specific, give me two examples of the top skills you are looking for etc8

This is crucial. The problem is that the recruitment process is disjointed. HR write the guidance on how to complete the application, asking for loads of narrative detail. They tell you to address all the points in the person spec. Then someone from the Dept. the job will be in, writes a massive person spec. listing every thing they can possibly think of (ime this job is delegated to quite a junior member of staff). This leaves the applicant with a very time consuming application to fill in.

Instead employers should consider the essentials they REALLY need to know and just ask about that.

You do realise that in organisations such as mine ( a big university) this is an add on to my job. I end up spending my free time on this as it's not factored into my workload at all. Reviewing a single CV might not take long but reviewing 100's does.
I need to know lots of info before I offer interviews.

PP beat me to it - it is absolutely not an applicant's problem. Take that up with your boss.

So OK, recruiters. You want an example of how I handles an X situation in the past. And a Y, and a Z. Fine. Don't give me 200 words to write it in.

You want to know what I've done: it's on my CV. It's on my LinkedIn. You want a bit of info about x! Y, z and a personal statement? It can go in my cover letter.

It's not rocket science.

It's not rocket science.

You're right it's not. It's not difficult to understand that different sectors/organisations have different recruitment practices. In most cases they are set up in a particular way for a reason.

I'm currently recruiting for a senior lecturer to teach on my course. If they can't be bothered to complete a personal statement as part of the application process then I'm not sure they're the right person for the job.

Personally I don't understand why companies expect you to decant the contents of your CV into their online format.

A properly formatted CV contains all necessary work and qualification information. So time-consuming to cut and paste it into an online format when often you receive no reply whatsoever from the potential employer.

So OK, recruiters. You want an example of how I handles an X situation in the past. And a Y, and a Z. Fine. Don't give me 200 words to write it in. I need to know you can write succinctly - it's a skill we require!

@Lovethesun100

Personally I don't understand why companies expect you to decant the contents of your CV into their online format.

A properly formatted CV contains all necessary work and qualification information. So time-consuming to cut and paste it into an online format when often you receive no reply whatsoever from the potential employer.

It could be that the shortlisting is being done via an online programme so it needs to be entered in a particular format.

Not getting a response is poor practice though.

@Lovethesun100

Personally I don't understand why companies expect you to decant the contents of your CV into their online format.

A properly formatted CV contains all necessary work and qualification information. So time-consuming to cut and paste it into an online format when often you receive no reply whatsoever from the potential employer.

Especially when you can simply upload your CV on certain employers job application sites and the software does it for you.

On a slight tangent here, but I also have a personal vendetta against multiple interviews unless it's for a very competitive or senior position. I think it just shows inefficiency, arrogance on the part of the employer, and a lack of respect for applicants' time. In my early career, I did not encounter a single second interview that was a good use of anyone's time; they were mostly just a very similar interview but with different interviewers. I actually rejected a job offer on the basis that I was irritated by their pointless second interview and vowed that I would not be attending any second interview again until I was applying for proper senior roles. I suppose I was lucky to be in a good job already, or else I probably would have allowed these people to continue wasting my time!

Having been on both sides of the interview process, I agree about pointless multiple interviews. However, I would say that you need to have second interviews not just for senior/competitive posts but including medium and sometimes junior posts which have advancement potential. Yes, the candidate repeats themselves to a different set of people, but second interviews is after the major first round cull and the purpose to get buy in from seniors and co-workers.

The second round panel may not be so stuck into the weeds of the actual role but they will ask wider questions, often around the softer and more personal side such as personality fit and background. It is often less intense than the first round and shows the candidate the more human side of the organisation. I have interviewed as line manager for the first round (including technical questions) and sat in on the second round interviews. It is good to get 2 looks at the candidate because it is easy to ace one panel but more difficult to ace both, if the candidate is practised at saying the right things, especially where the interviewers ask the same questions from a different angle.

I am doing a senior role. If I wanted a job bad enough, I would jump through hoops to write the answers within the word limit.

However, the best people are often not the ones actively looking. They might be interested in new positions but will not go out of their way to explore options. They will have been frequently contacted by headhunters and recruiters and are often quite jaded and need 'courting' to jump ship.

The long application form will not be filled in by such candidates before the first interview. Maybe after the second or third after they had a chance to interview the company!

One thing to bear in mind is that the motivation of HR is not to get the best candidate, or look after the staff they have, or even look after the best interests of the organization. Rather, it's to justify the need for more and more HR 'professionals', because the bigger your department the more important you must be. The more labyrinthine the processes deployed for recruitment, the more HR is needed. God forbid a competent manager would look through a pile of CVs and pick out the top five. If that sort of thing started happening then people might realize how pointless the whole recruitment industry is, which would of course be terrible.

We usually have three interviews - a fit/personality interview, a skills/technical interview and finally a meet the big cheese interview - all achieve different things and if nothing else meeting the big cheese is as much for the candidate as the company - they get to judge him and question him - we also offer them access to interview our team - any one of our team.

@blueshoes "I am doing a senior role. If I wanted a job bad enough, I would jump through hoops to write the answers within the word limit.

However, the best people are often not the ones actively looking. They might be interested in new positions but will not go out of their way to explore options. They will have been frequently contacted by headhunters and recruiters and are often quite jaded and need 'courting' to jump ship.

The long application form will not be filled in by such candidates before the first interview. Maybe after the second or third after they had a chance to interview the company!"

A very insightful perspective with which I agree.