Soooo disappointed in job applications!

[SnowfallSnowball]

Hi
I am currently shortlisting for a role and the level of applications are so disappointing. I totally understand that nowadays applications are a task in themselves but if you’re not going to take the time to read the application guidance, JD and PS why bother applying at all?

I have already seen a high number of people who have just wrote a cover letter and attached their CV when we specify no CV’s and to write a supporting statement abiding by items on the PS. Many of these applicants are already in a job so they must have applied properly to posts in the past, I don’t get it!

Any other recruiters have these issues?

It depends on the role that you’re recruiting for OP, but a lot of the labour market at the moment is very competitive and candidate driven.
You are competing for the best talent against other employers, and if you make people jump through hoops when a competitor is offering a more efficient process, many just aren’t going to bother.
Maybe look at your sourcing strategy too. A lot of the best candidates are quite passive in the market, I.e. they have good jobs and possibly aren’t looking around but may be enticed if employers come to them or if they see a great opportunity and are motivated to apply. These types of people are much more likely to send over a CV than they are to spend hours form filling. It’s the people who are desperate to leave their current employers who put the most effort in, but they may not necessarily be the people you want.
And ultimately, a long bureaucratic application process makes it clear what type of employer you are from the get go, I wouldn’t spend hours filling in a form for a job because I wouldn’t want to work for an organisation that values time spent on that kind of thing.

I applied for a job with a local authority. Application form. Limited each section to a certain number of characters. That was feckin tedious. Took literally hours because it didn't say how many characters, just had to put text in and delete until it was accepted.
Tbh by the time I submitted it i now longer wanted the job!

The point of an application process isn’t to understand everything about the candidate, it’s to get enough to shortlist for interview. That’s where you ask the real questions. If your process isn’t as simple as possible, and you can’t use a cv to identify potential fit then you’re doing it wrong

Long winded massive application forms which repeat what’s on the cv and ask you to jump through hoops at that very early stage are a red flag for an employer who values their process over your time. They’re saying “you’d be lucky to work here”

Never forget the process is two way, candidates are interviewing you, filtering employers and you should be making yourself attractive to them too

I'm starting to see the difference between 'send in a CV and let them figure out how great you are' Vs 'write a statement tailored to PS to go with a tedious application form' is possibly that the latter is for those of us who have to comply with official Safer Recruitment procedures? I'm not saying they are better (well...) but that it's a formal thing that people perhaps don't know about unless they've done recruitment at some point within that framework themself?

@Brefugee

What kind of selection process do you recommend?

Make the ad more targeted at the actual role and requirements. 5 paragraphs about your global blah blah and 1 about the role, which is waffly and non-specific and then a huge list of unrealistic requirements for ... salary & compensation package should be clear. It stops me wasting my valuable time applying for a possibly interesting job with shit pay.

And the follow up is important. If someone takes the time to complete the ridiculous process - when you reject people call them. At least email them using their actual name. If they get to shortlist stage you should be giving them feedback about why you didn't take them on. They gave you their time, the least you can do is give some of yours back.

Pretty much every candidate these days, who sees a job ad will go to the company's website. You don't need all the waffle about how diverse and agile you are in your ad.

Thanks for sharing but nothing new here - and it still yields excessive amounts of well educated candidates who can't be bothered to read or complete basic instructions - yet think they might be in with a chance on getting a well paid job. I don't know why they make any effort to apply.

Recruiting can be so tedious. I am CS and love or loathe the process it is pretty easy to navigate due to the sheer amount of information online be it official or unofficial. Once you've cracked it, preparing for a CS application and interview is a breeze. But some people are just too lazy, bearing in mind you're trying to secure one of the most important elements of your life, your income and livelihood, it's worth investing a bit of time in the process. I sifted last week and people were putting two lines under behaviours, and saying "none" under specific technical questions, and I don't have reason to believe they were not genuine applications as they had relevant experience in similar roles, I think they genuinely thought they could get to interview based off their job history alone. CVs and job histories do not tell you enough about a person, particularly for younger people.

I started filling in one of those online applications a few weeks ago, but got half way through and gave up when it kept asking what I know about the company and why I want to work there, and how I think I'd fit in.

I get an email every few days reminding me to complete the application, and the job is now with the local recruitment firms too so their recruitment strategy obviously isn't working that well.

Just accept CVs and then if you like the look of the candidate then ask for an application to be completed. I can't be arsed to spend an evening filling in online forms, but then I'm quite happy in my current job and get a good salary so am not desperate enough to bother.

The point of an application process isn’t to understand everything about the candidate, it’s to get enough to shortlist for interview. That’s where you ask the real questions. If your process isn’t as simple as possible, and you can’t use a cv to identify potential fit then you’re doing it wrong

I completely disagree. If we just asked for a CV we'd end up with hundreds and hundreds of applications. In a previous role I was responsible for we still got around 100 applicants for a particular role and a CV just wouldn't give us enough information to allow us to shortlist.

CV applications work well for some roles but not all and not the type of roles I've often recruited for.

Long winded massive application forms which repeat what’s on the cv and ask you to jump through hoops at that very early stage are a red flag for an employer who values their process over your time. They’re saying “you’d be lucky to work here”

Again, I disagree. I think it's a massive red flag if an applicant can't be bothered to complete the specified application process. It's not about saying you'd be lucky to work here but it is acknowledging it's a competitive process.

Never forget the process is two way, candidates are interviewing you, filtering employers and you should be making yourself attractive to them too

I agree with this. However, in the type of role I'm recruiting for I'd expect an applicant to be able to write a decent personal statement- especially as the successful candidate will be advising others on how to write them!!

Just accept CVs and then if you like the look of the candidate then ask for an application to be completed. I can't be arsed to spend an evening filling in online forms, but then I'm quite happy in my current job and get a good salary so am not desperate enough to bother.

So you're asking employers to do more work because you can't be bothered with their application process?

@FlowerArranger

... people who have just wrote...

Glad I'm not the only one...

@SpiderinaWingMirror

I applied for a job with a local authority. Application form. Limited each section to a certain number of characters. That was feckin tedious. Took literally hours because it didn't say how many characters, just had to put text in and delete until it was accepted. Tbh by the time I submitted it i now longer wanted the job!

That's so bad. I would have been tearing my hair out!

I think people just assume too much. I reviewed a friend's professionally produced CV and her carefully written covering letter against the JD. I highlighted almost half the JD requirements she had failed to address - I knew she had the skills - she had assumed they would know too. She changed around her CV following my feedback and got the job but It really made me question the CV process when people do not understand that they are being scored against the JD requirements.
Application forms would hopefully force the applicant to address each aspect of the JD requirement but then I do think a long winded process is off putting to those who are already working long hours and possibly it favours those who aren't - which is not what you want either.

I think applications writing is an art and most people simply don't know how to do it well.

My org has an online application with personal statement. We allow about 1000 words but, in our recent recruitment process, had about a third of applicants who wrote 300 words or less. I don't think your experience is unusual, Op.

Interesting to see the OP hasn’t responded to the three people pointing out grammatical howlers in her opening post. I hope you read applications with a bit more care, OP!

Why are people completing application forms that take 6 hours. This is ridiculous. I just think that's wrong. It's wrong of employers to expect that.

Fortunately in Accounts it's still more just pinging a CV over, attaching CV.

I'm not prepared to spend a whole day ok an application form. I just think that something has gone a bit awry for this to be considered ok.

How much Salary is this job? Bet it's not huge.

Why are people completing application forms that take 6 hours. This is ridiculous. I just think that's wrong. It's wrong of employers to expect that.

How is it wrong, employment is a huge deal. Ok fine applying for a low paid with low skills job shouldn't require a lengthy application process. But how can anyone begrudge spending the time to successfully apply for one of the biggest aspects of their lives and their main source of income? 6 hours to secure your means to eat, dress and house yourself doesn't seem excessive to me.

I have always invested a lot of time in the job application/preparation process since finishing university and what I've found is if you're selective about the roles you go for, and apply properly, there isn't the need to fill in hundreds of applications or send generic CVs out to companies who aren't interested. It's pissing into the wind.

So you're asking employers to do more work because you can't be bothered with their application process?

All the recruiters I've spoken to recently (we're hiring) have said similar to me lately: it is a seller's market. If you want to attract good candidates you have to work at it.

You also have to know by now that in the UK jobseekers in receipt of benefits have to apply for an unholy number of jobs. They can't even spend a couple of hours on one application. In their shoes I'd probably do one good application a day and bung out a load of CVs to make up the numbers. It is what it is - a massive waste of lots of people's time.

You also have to know by now that in the UK jobseekers in receipt of benefits have to apply for an unholy number of jobs. They can't even spend a couple of hours on one application. In their shoes I'd probably do one good application a day and bung out a load of CVs to make up the numbers. It is what it is - a massive waste of lots of people's time.

But again, it depends on the sector and the job. I'm recruiting at the moment and I need to know quite a lot of detail before shortlisting. A CV just doesn't give me enough and would result in a very difficult shortlisting process. I get 100+ applications as it stands and they need to complete a personal statement. I can't imagine how many I'd get if it was just a CV.
We also recruit people who can demonstrate transferable skills so while they might not have direct, relevant experience we know they would still be good at the job. You can't get that from a CV.

@user89764

Why are people completing application forms that take 6 hours. This is ridiculous. I just think that's wrong. It's wrong of employers to expect that.

How is it wrong, employment is a huge deal. Ok fine applying for a low paid with low skills job shouldn't require a lengthy application process. But how can anyone begrudge spending the time to successfully apply for one of the biggest aspects of their lives and their main source of income? 6 hours to secure your means to eat, dress and house yourself doesn't seem excessive to me.

I have always invested a lot of time in the job application/preparation process since finishing university and what I've found is if you're selective about the roles you go for, and apply properly, there isn't the need to fill in hundreds of applications or send generic CVs out to companies who aren't interested. It's pissing into the wind.

Generally the most sought after candidates have lots of options. They’re probably being approached directly by recruiters or the company. They’re probably being poached from a similar job at a competitor.

So you're asking employers to do more work because you can't be bothered with their application process?

Yep I am.

The OP is complaining there's not enough good candidates, there's a shortage of employees across all sectors at the moment, if they want more good candidates they need to change their recruitment process.

I applied for a cleaning job yesterday. I had to send a CV, a Cover Letter and then take two formal assessments. Each assessment had twenty questions each. Things like 'Look at the table and work out which employee worked the most hours. How many hours did this employee work for X Company?' Or questions like, 'Listen to this Audio between a Customer and Receptionist. How would you respond to the Customer in this scenario?' 'Look at the above image. How many shapes contain the same numbers as the red oval?' Fucking ridiculous. All for two hours a day cleaning toilets and offices. I then recieved a text from the recruitment person saying 'Hi are you still interested?' I replied and said I was. They then said 'are you available to meet this week' I asked when and where and they said, 'probably friday not sure what time can you bring X documents with you'. No punctuation. No spoken communication. Just some crappy unprofessional texting.

@ElizaDoolots

It depends on the role that you’re recruiting for OP, but a lot of the labour market at the moment is very competitive and candidate driven. You are competing for the best talent against other employers, and if you make people jump through hoops when a competitor is offering a more efficient process, many just aren’t going to bother. Maybe look at your sourcing strategy too. A lot of the best candidates are quite passive in the market, I.e. they have good jobs and possibly aren’t looking around but may be enticed if employers come to them or if they see a great opportunity and are motivated to apply. These types of people are much more likely to send over a CV than they are to spend hours form filling. It’s the people who are desperate to leave their current employers who put the most effort in, but they may not necessarily be the people you want. And ultimately, a long bureaucratic application process makes it clear what type of employer you are from the get go, I wouldn’t spend hours filling in a form for a job because I wouldn’t want to work for an organisation that values time spent on that kind of thing.

I could not agree more! The best applicants usually know their worth, and know they will be able to find other employers that don't require tedious time-wasting forms.

On a slight tangent here, but I also have a personal vendetta against multiple interviews unless it's for a very competitive or senior position. I think it just shows inefficiency, arrogance on the part of the employer, and a lack of respect for applicants' time. In my early career, I did not encounter a single second interview that was a good use of anyone's time; they were mostly just a very similar interview but with different interviewers. I actually rejected a job offer on the basis that I was irritated by their pointless second interview and vowed that I would not be attending any second interview again until I was applying for proper senior roles. I suppose I was lucky to be in a good job already, or else I probably would have allowed these people to continue wasting my time!

@kravestix

I applied for a cleaning job yesterday. I had to send a CV, a Cover Letter and then take two formal assessments. Each assessment had twenty questions each. Things like 'Look at the table and work out which employee worked the most hours. How many hours did this employee work for X Company?' Or questions like, 'Listen to this Audio between a Customer and Receptionist. How would you respond to the Customer in this scenario?' 'Look at the above image. How many shapes contain the same numbers as the red oval?' Fucking ridiculous. All for two hours a day cleaning toilets and offices. I then recieved a text from the recruitment person saying 'Hi are you still interested?' I replied and said I was. They then said 'are you available to meet this week' I asked when and where and they said, 'probably friday not sure what time can you bring X documents with you'. No punctuation. No spoken communication. Just some crappy unprofessional texting.

That's sounds so over the top and unprofessional that I don't know what to say. Definitely ridiculous.

@kravestix

I applied for a cleaning job yesterday. I had to send a CV, a Cover Letter and then take two formal assessments. Each assessment had twenty questions each. Things like 'Look at the table and work out which employee worked the most hours. How many hours did this employee work for X Company?' Or questions like, 'Listen to this Audio between a Customer and Receptionist. How would you respond to the Customer in this scenario?' 'Look at the above image. How many shapes contain the same numbers as the red oval?' Fucking ridiculous. All for two hours a day cleaning toilets and offices. I then recieved a text from the recruitment person saying 'Hi are you still interested?' I replied and said I was. They then said 'are you available to meet this week' I asked when and where and they said, 'probably friday not sure what time can you bring X documents with you'. No punctuation. No spoken communication. Just some crappy unprofessional texting.

Urgh! Was it a recruitment company? If so I bet they use the same application for all positions and you would have been successfully shortlisted by their process for any of their roles.

My position I applied for recently was for a public sector role and it was quite clear from the way it was written that the application form was the same one for the most senior person or any... and I was applying for the most junior.
But because it was required by the process I had to fill it all in anyway despite the fact that a lot of it would only have been needed if I was trying for something more senior. They just hasn't tailored the form for the tiers of the organisation. I just viewed it as a hoop to jump to get the interview, so got on with it, but it was a waste of time.

@PieceOfString Wow! No, it wasn't through a recruitment company! It was directly with the Cleaning Company. I genuinely couldn't believe it. So many questions about Customer Service and how you'd respond to Customers. Completely irrelevant for cleaning an empty office building!