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Wise Ruby Wax - working and stay at home parents

592 replies

Judy1234 · 24/11/2007 22:01

In today's Telegraph....

"Dear Ruby

I stopped working when I had my third child. It didn't make sense to continue with my job when I had a stressed-out husband requiring my support and children who needed me at home. It was an agonising decision, but my salary only just covered the cost of childcare.

And we didn't need the money - my husband earns six times more than I did. More importantly, I felt really guilty going off to the office every day and leaving my kids behind.

My problem is this: since I stopped working I feel like a non-person. Oddly, it's other women who give me this feeling. Women who have somehow managed to keep their careers afloat through babies, breastfeeding, nappy rash and all the mayhem of motherhood, treat me with barely disguised contempt. It's almost as if, by staying at home, I've lost the right to have an opinion, or say anything interesting. It's deeply upsetting.

Life is hard enough as it is, so why can't women be allies at least? Why can't we respect each other's choices? Amanda M, Edinburgh

Dear Amanda

I have heard that cry from some of my "non-person" friends when they decided to give it all up for breastfeeding duty. The reason I would also probably treat you with disdain if I met you is that I am secretly (well, not so secretly any more) jealous.

You are lucky enough to have a husband who makes six times the amount you made and that really irks me, as I'm sure it would other females.

But in your position, I would have worked anyway, as all my self-esteem is stored up in my job. I could never have applied the word "housewife" to myself. I'd rather have put a sabre through my head.

Although I admire your sacrifice to the little one, on the whole, I find women who don't work to be just a teensy bit boring with their obsession with schools and stools. Not all, just most.

Perhaps other working mothers are reminded how guilty they feel about abandoning the home. Perhaps we take it out on you. Enjoy your home life."

OP posts:
anniemac · 04/12/2007 11:14

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anniemac · 04/12/2007 11:16

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Anna8888 · 04/12/2007 11:20

oh anniemac, it is interesting to see how the other side perceives things... I have had loads of comments from MNers in the vein of "you need to get back to work" (even when I had already posted that I was going back to work).

And although I quite agree with you that most women work through necessity, not choice, there are mothers out there who work through choice and who have no financial need to do so and I suppose that they are a real curiosity to many devoted SAHMs. Because their personalities/priorities are polar opposites.

Swedes2Turnips1 · 04/12/2007 11:26

anniemac - Sorry. I didn't mean to offend you. Xenia agrees with Ruby Wax that she would rather but a sabre through her head than be a SAHM. I am a SAHM but don't feel like that about work, I really miss my job and my colleagues and my income. I am jealous of working mums at times. For me though, the current arrangement fits my family and my circumstances best. I think Xenia does women a great disservice by suggesting that it is a very very easy decision to make. It isn't.

anniemac · 04/12/2007 11:57

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Anna8888 · 04/12/2007 12:01

anniemac - interestingly enough, most of the working women I know personally (many of whom probably don't have to work through financial necessity) say things like "I couldn't look after a child all day".

But I think there are all sorts - I even know SAHMs who have full-time nannies and send their children to nursery from 18 months as well .

anniemac · 04/12/2007 12:07

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anniemac · 04/12/2007 12:08

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FioFio · 04/12/2007 12:10

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Anna8888 · 04/12/2007 12:16

anniemac - a lot of women around here don't ever want to be alone with their children. They either have nannies, or go out to work and leave the children with a nanny or in a nursery, and at the weekends their husband/partner is around. And sometimes they have help at the weekend too. And they go on holiday to Club Med or other places with childcare facilities.

That is very hard for me to understand.

anniemac · 04/12/2007 12:22

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Anna8888 · 04/12/2007 13:00

I adore being on my own with my daughter, so it's very hard for me to understand. But I think that the women that feel the way I describe genuinely do not understand what motivates women to be alone with their children and make the choice to be a SAHM with no nanny - so they can only despise that choice as they themselves would find it so unstimulating and dull. It's just not possible for them to understand what SAHMs get out of being with their children because they themselves don't get "it".

And, to my mind, that's where a lot of the misunderstanding and conflict arises - from the small percentage of mothers who really don't enjoy their DCs company.

morningpaper · 04/12/2007 13:10

Anna8888:
"a lot of women around here don't ever want to be alone with their children. They either have nannies, or go out to work and leave the children with a nanny or in a nursery, and at the weekends their husband/partner is around. And sometimes they have help at the weekend too. And they go on holiday to Club Med or other places with childcare facilities."

That's just bollocks. It's a crude and misogynistic stereotype and it makes me mad. It's the sort of thing that women's magazines run 'funny' articles about.

Please name these "lots of women" on Mumsnet Anna who can't bear to be alone with their children? Because I've never met one.

anniemac · 04/12/2007 13:29

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Anna8888 · 04/12/2007 13:29

morningpaper - it's absolutely not "bollocks". Maybe you need to travel a little

There are lots of women in Paris who are literally never alone with their children and that's their choice. I have a second cousin (English) in Paris married to a Frenchwoman and it's quite a big thing in their marriage that she can never be alone with their daughter. I have girlfriends who never come round here with their children without trying to bring the nanny (I am dead against having someone's nanny hanging about in my house, so I always try to get out of this arrangement).

Anna8888 · 04/12/2007 13:30

Careful - I didn't say those mothers hate being with their children. I said that they didn't want to be alone with them. That's a pretty different idea IMO.

FluffyMummy123 · 04/12/2007 13:32

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anniemac · 04/12/2007 13:34

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morningpaper · 04/12/2007 13:41

Ah so Anna when you say "lots of mothers around here" you mean some of the rich Parisien women of your acquaintance??

I'm not sure how "travelling" is going to help me mingle in that particular social circle should I desire to, but if you have an itinery that would take that in with two small children and a family Railcard, then let me know ....

ScottishMummy · 04/12/2007 13:43

anna888- my child is in nursery i work fulltime, are you implying i don't want to be with my wee one? are you judging me theN?i love my wee one with all my heart , i also love working with all my heart, i do both

i see you have not answered MorningPaper, qusetion. i do hope that your anecdotal observation does not becomea generalisation.

kerala · 04/12/2007 13:45

morningpaper - I have met that person but agree women like that are very rare and just serve to exacerbate sterotypes.

Shocked by the judgemental attitudes. Everyone makes decisions based on their own individual circumstances and priorities. Personally could not leave a 2 week old with a nanny and would not choose to work full time when I had a baby but wouldn't lambast anyone that wanted to. No more than I would say "I am a lawyer that is a good career, you, engineer, are in the wrong". Bonkers, no?

mummymagic · 04/12/2007 13:46

Don't get this need to work thing.

Jeez, I was part-time before I had a baby. If I won the lottery I don't think I would work - I mean, I love my job, is very rewarding and would probably pop in and do bits and pieces but full-time 9-5 style yawn yawn. Obviously we do need to work as a society or it will all go wrong (although that doesn't really justify those pointless media jobs) but

your self-esteem tied up in your work Ruby, really?

I don't know why intelligent women can't find happiness and fulfillment in what goes on around them. Read a book, paint a picture, learn about your child - why is this less fulfilling than writing a catchy jingle for an advert? Is it other's approval we need? (genuinely interested)

Anna8888 · 04/12/2007 13:49

morningpaper - rich and not so rich.

I quite agree that it is more common in France than in England, but the point is - it exists. There are women who don't yearn for their child's company. And they find it hard to understand women who do.

Anna8888 · 04/12/2007 13:50

ScottishMummy - don't get so excited I'm not implying anything of the sort, read the thread.

morningpaper · 04/12/2007 13:51

Anna you always sound as though you absolutely can't bear any of the mothers that you know.