Wise Ruby Wax - working and stay at home parents

[Judy1234]

In today's Telegraph....

"Dear Ruby

I stopped working when I had my third child. It didn't make sense to continue with my job when I had a stressed-out husband requiring my support and children who needed me at home. It was an agonising decision, but my salary only just covered the cost of childcare.

And we didn't need the money - my husband earns six times more than I did. More importantly, I felt really guilty going off to the office every day and leaving my kids behind.

My problem is this: since I stopped working I feel like a non-person. Oddly, it's other women who give me this feeling. Women who have somehow managed to keep their careers afloat through babies, breastfeeding, nappy rash and all the mayhem of motherhood, treat me with barely disguised contempt. It's almost as if, by staying at home, I've lost the right to have an opinion, or say anything interesting. It's deeply upsetting.

Life is hard enough as it is, so why can't women be allies at least? Why can't we respect each other's choices? Amanda M, Edinburgh

Dear Amanda

I have heard that cry from some of my "non-person" friends when they decided to give it all up for breastfeeding duty. The reason I would also probably treat you with disdain if I met you is that I am secretly (well, not so secretly any more) jealous.

You are lucky enough to have a husband who makes six times the amount you made and that really irks me, as I'm sure it would other females.

But in your position, I would have worked anyway, as all my self-esteem is stored up in my job. I could never have applied the word "housewife" to myself. I'd rather have put a sabre through my head.

Although I admire your sacrifice to the little one, on the whole, I find women who don't work to be just a teensy bit boring with their obsession with schools and stools. Not all, just most.

Perhaps other working mothers are reminded how guilty they feel about abandoning the home. Perhaps we take it out on you. Enjoy your home life."

Interesting. Makes sense. Hope you enjoy your skiing trip Xenia.

We don't particularly want the boys to come to live with us (we don't mind either way) - what we want is for their mother to take proper care of them when they are with her (whatever amount of time that may be), because they are suffering from lack of maternal attention. Unfortunately, after years of negotiation between my partner and her, it was necessary to threaten her a bit as she was totally losing the plot. We have the impression that her lawyer did make her understand that she was not in the right and that my partner had grounds when complaining that she was not paying due care and attention to her children, and making requests for additional nights with us that were not acceptable.

Evelina - my MOL likes my partner's ex about as much as she likes me - we have different faults though .

Intriguing...care to expand?

Ex isn't maternal/caring enough, didn't take good care of grandsons and knackered my partner when they were married as she's so demanding and self-centred. On the other hand she did the Jewish thing completely and, since she was so hands-off, allowed MOL pretty free access to grandsons.

I am not Jewish enough, and put all kinds of subversive thoughts into her son's head so he no longer obeys his Jewish mama. And I take care of their son and grandsons, which means that MOL sees less of them than she would like as I don't need to offload all the time.

Ah, I see. You have religious complications on top of everything else. Did your MOL do that wierd "never alone" thing with the ex as well? (It still makes me chuckle, as if she needs an armed guard or something!).
Families are never straightforward, are they, especially with everyone thrown together at this time of year (although maybe you escape that- other festivals though I'm sure).

May be all parents should hav their children 50% of the time though and that would be fairer on the ex wife here. I wish my ex would have them half the time. No reason mothers should be lumbered with it all.

Xenia - we would love 50:50 - we keep asking for it. But ex doesn't want it as she would no longer be able to claim maintenance...

Evelina - we just spent the day (all five of us) with my parents and my sister, BIL and their five children - at least I don't get lumbered with too much out-of-law Christmas (only one evening).

But yes, there are all sorts of other religious festivals.

I don't think my MOL and my partner's ex were ever friends exactly. But lots of French MILs are very authoritarian and domineering and expect to boss their DILs around - the relationship is a bit disconcerting for those who have not grown up to it.

It doesn't sound too easy. My ex mother in law was easy to be with and my mother didn't interfere so we had no problems there.

In the UK children of 13 upwards can usually choose which parent they live with and a court will very rarely force a 15 year old against their will into the mother's or father's home and then the parent who gets de facto care obviously claims maintenance from the other. May be diferent in French law though as children may be have to do as they're told not given a choice. We are in France at the moment.

Quite honestly I am not sure at what age children in France are allowed to "decide" which parent they live with. We do discuss arrangements with them a lot, and try to accommodate everyone to the best of our abilities and have changed the night in the week they spend here from Tuesday to Wednesday largely for their convenience/comfort. They are pretty verbal and expressive, and they definitely want to spend a good amount of time in both homes at the moment (and we live 5 minutes apart to make this easy and possible).

They do, however, complain a lot that their mother is so often absent when they are at her home, whereas the number of times my partner hasn't been home for the afternoon or evening when they are here is infinitely small - and of course, when that happens, I am here with their little sister and we still have a proper family life, they are not left alone or with a babysitter.

Anna, your posts do highlight two of the most difficult relationships- step parent/child and MIL/DIL- stuff of jokes, fairy tales etc.
What I find interesting about the MIL issue is how much the whole relationship can differ based on which country or culture you are born or based in. For example in India, it seems to be MIL paradise and DIL is very much at her mercy. I'm no expert, but I believe the wife has to pay a dowry, move into the MIL's house, live by her rules etc. Not surprisingly, sons are much favoured. Whereas in this country the opposite seems to be true based on the old "you've got a son until he gets married" thing. France seems to be somewhere in the middle.
Not fair really is it? Very much luck of the draw.

That's why it's wise to pick the culture you marry into I suppose and do your due diligence on the relationship between your partner and their parents before getting too involved. Often there isn't much contact anyway particularly if people have moved away from their home state so it's not quite such an issue but plenty of indian /Pakistan origin neighbours near me will live in the conventional set up of husband's parents, husband and the wife and sometimes two brothers live their too with their wives and the parents f the husbands. That's why large houses are needed. My father had plenty of psychiatric patients whose problems in part were due to that requirement - to live with MIL although sometimes it works well and is quite nice for children to have all those relatives around.
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In the UK on contact sometimes a dificult teenager will keep moving between homes and sometimes it's best to resist that anyway. They shouldn't play one parent off against another although if the options are I wil run away or be put into care if you make me live with my mother/father or I will happily live with the other parent then most parents would probably cave in and allow the swap.

Goodness, parenting isn't easy is it? I'm dreading the teenage years in some ways. Will seriously consider a state boarding school such as Cranbrook if we can afford it! Age 13 -19 outside the house during the week- sounds good...

Don't agree. I think they need parental influence at those ages not parental opting out which is what boarding school often means and that they build relationships with you by their rejection and nastiness to you in a way that children ho board don't who then become remote from their parents in a way you can often see in practice.

Evelina - they are "difficult" relationships but, quite honestly, I think that MILs/MOLs can be kept at arms' length quite successfully providing you are clear about your boundaries from the outset - it is much harder to retract and impose boundaries once she has walked all over you than to never let her close . I am "fortunate" in that my partner can only manage his parents in very limited doses - he was going crazy with distraction after Christmas Eve dinner spent with them whereas it doesn't "get" to me.

On stepchildren - my direct relationship with my stepchildren is easy, and always has been - children, unless they have been traumatised in some way, generally respond quite well to attention and care. The "difficulty" is in managing the relationship with their mother. I have plenty of stepmother friends who say the same thing (though I am not saying that this is a universal phenomenon).

Sounds like you have a very supportive partner Anna which does help in these matters!
BTW I saw on the education thread that you know the Kent schools quite well. I've posted a question there about Cranbrook so if you were ever visiting...

evelina - my partner and I are pretty much in tune about family relationships and agree on most things... fortunately