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Original poster

Can employer insist I don't have elective surgery on a given date?

108 replies

fightingSmiths · 05/04/2021 09:46

I am waiting for surgery (elective) and will need more than a couple of weeks to recover (severe stage 4 endo). I spoke to my manager and he said as the business is incredibly busy and I am business critical, I will be expected to not go ahead with it anytime soon but to postpone it. The company's reasoning is along the lines elective = not important. I don't have an actual date yet and it may well be a while off but I am looking into funding it privatly as I am in severe pain on a daily basis.

Can work really disallow this procedure as it is not an emergency surgery? And what happens if I go ahead anyways?

OP posts:
flowery · 05/04/2021 10:17

“Unfortunately the NHS doesn’t work like that, the waiting lists are such that you take the date you’re given, so I won’t be able to postpone.”

If you go ahead you’ll be unfit for work and signed off sick. But if you are in severe pain on a daily basis it’s in the interests of the company for it to be sorted as otherwise you may end up with more disruptive unplanned sickness absence!

AreYouCursed · 05/04/2021 10:27

There have been cases before employment tribunals in which women with severe endometriosis have been judged to meet the threshold for being classed as disabled. It's case-by-case, but if you're in daily pain, you would probably meet this threshold too.
I don't see that it would be regarded as at all reasonable for an employer to block necessary surgery like this. What's the likelihood that work is never quiet enough for you to take the time off?

It probably won't be helpful to raise this with them right now, but it's worth bearing in mind if things become difficult.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 05/04/2021 10:33

All elective means is that it is on a planned date rather than an emergency. It doesn’t mean optional. Just have your surgery when it is planned.

Original poster
fightingSmiths · 05/04/2021 10:36

I am taking meds daily which keep me going. I would be bedbound without but function with. I doubt I would meet the threshold of being disabled under the Equality Act (I have a child with complex needs and know a thing or two about it). That wouldn't stand in an employment tribunal.

OP posts:
Original poster
fightingSmiths · 05/04/2021 10:38

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

All elective means is that it is on a planned date rather than an emergency. It doesn’t mean optional. Just have your surgery when it is planned.
work Indicated they would not let me take the time off if the date is soon (next few months). hence my question.

I googled and it seems work can deny time off

OP posts:
MarkRuffaloCrumble · 05/04/2021 10:38

I think the definition of elective is what you need to challenge here. They’re using it to mean non essential whereas a PP has said it just means non emergency.

Hope your appointment comes through soon and you have a speedy recovery Flowers

MarkRuffaloCrumble · 05/04/2021 10:39

I’m sure they can deny holiday if they’re busy, but not medical treatment. It would be slightly different IMHO if you were having a Boob job or something, but for endo they can go fuck themselves.

Halo1234 · 05/04/2021 10:40

Not an expert on this, but that doesn't sound right. The way I see it your either fit for work or not. If a dr gives u a sick line (like any dr would post surgery - elective or not) then you are not fit for work and its not for the company to decide otherwise or to judge the reasons. You are medically declared unfit for work for x number of week full stop. I would go ahead with the surgery if I was you.

Trisolaris · 05/04/2021 10:41

Under the equality act, when considering disability if it is controlled by medication you need to consider the individual how they would be without medication. So you would be covered.

FourWordsImMuNiTy · 05/04/2021 10:41

Have you explained to them that your condition is currently causing you severe pain on a daily basis?

When are they expecting the busy period to stop so they’d be able to spare you comfortably for the necessary time? “Not anytime soon” sounds like they’d be expecting you to suffer for months on end, in which case they can fuck off.

Crimeismymiddlename · 05/04/2021 10:42

Your manager is being ridiculous. He seems to be to be equating your essential surgery with a nose job. You’re in great pain so need it done, I don’t count that as elective. Urgent medical matters aren’t just emergency’s. He is being very short sighted. I have had people who have had similar issues, yes it’s annoying when busy, but people get ill-I would never, ever ask them to postpone surgery. That and the NHS does not work to anyone’s schedule but their own.

Thehawki · 05/04/2021 10:42

You are within the right to take the date given to you. Do not let your employer attempt to dictate when you have surgery. This is only elective in that you didn’t need an emergency surgery, this is a completely needed surgery for the daily pain that you have been getting.

What you say to your boss is ‘this surgery is only called elective because it’s not an emergency, I am in pain daily and need the surgery. I will be taking the date given to me’ I wouldn’t bother saying anything until you’ve been given the date though.

YouLikeTheBadOnesToo · 05/04/2021 10:43

@MarkRuffaloCrumble

I think the definition of elective is what you need to challenge here. They’re using it to mean non essential whereas a PP has said it just means non emergency.

Hope your appointment comes through soon and you have a speedy recovery Flowers

Totally agree with this, their definition is the problem. Think of it as calling a planned c-sections, an ‘elective caesarian’. In a lot of cases it’s not optional, for whatever reason the baby couldn’t be born vaginally. The ‘elective’ bit is that it’s preplanned. It doesn’t mean that it’s not needed.
LubaLuca · 05/04/2021 10:44

I think the employer is confused about what elective surgery is - I think they're imagining something cosmetic. If someone was waiting for a knee replacement, they wouldn't question it, surely.

Explain that if you don't go in on the date you're given, it could end up as an emergency admission, which would put everyone in a worse position.

SleepingStandingUp · 05/04/2021 10:44

Work can deny time off if you're taking annual leave but surely you're booking this time as medical/sick?

I would submit your hospital appt when you get it, tell them You're unable to rearrange it and him. Do the sled cert or whatever for the time off.

How big is your company? Is there someone else you can talk to?

5zeds · 05/04/2021 10:45

I’d talk to your Dr. They should be able to help with a letter that supports your “scheduled” surgery. I would however look for another job as I couldn’t work with arseholes for a minute longer than necessary.

Trisolaris · 05/04/2021 10:46

www.ms-solicitors.co.uk/employee/discrimination-in-the-workplace/disability-discrimination/factsheet-am-i-considered-disabled-under-the-equality-act/

A solicitors link to what I mentioned above - see point 3.

It’s why things like diabetes count as disabilities. With insulin I’m the same as any other person more or less but without I would be dead so it counts as a disability. Without medication OP would be bedbound and us therefore disabled.

IWantWhatShesHaving · 05/04/2021 10:46

I’d try a different approach. I’d ask for an off the record chat with my boss and say if they didn’t let me take the time off so I could stop being in pain on a daily basis I’d be looking for another job. If your role is that business critical a permanent absence would be far more inconvenient.

If you have an HR department I’d take it up with them also.

Whilst they are right, they can refuse time off for elective surgery what sort of employer would want their staff to be in pain?

Daisy829 · 05/04/2021 10:46

Your employer sounds like a total arse. I hope you get your date soon & take it Op. taking meds to allow you to function on a daily basis isn’t a great way to live. Do they realise this is what you have to do? Hope you get well soon.

QueenOfPain · 05/04/2021 10:47

Cancer surgery would be considered elective rather than emergency in most cases, would they disallow that too? Your boss doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Changechangychange · 05/04/2021 10:48

I’d be going off sick with severe pain. And staying off until your surgery. But that is me, and I work somewhere with robust employee protections.

Oblomov21 · 05/04/2021 10:49

Interesting. I have a op planned for soon. Elective v scheduled, eh?

BendyLikeBeckham · 05/04/2021 10:50

It is sick leave. Your employer cannot dictate whether or when you take that. Just make sure you get a Dr cert.

Have the surgery as soon as you can get it!

Original poster
fightingSmiths · 05/04/2021 10:51

@Changechangychange

I’d be going off sick with severe pain. And staying off until your surgery. But that is me, and I work somewhere with robust employee protections.
I am getting SSP only. I cannot afford sick leave if I can help it. Simple as that.
OP posts:
2020nymph · 05/04/2021 10:53

That is shocking but not surprising.

I have had two surgeries for endo. Before my first surgery my then boss told me that I could have the Friday to recover after my Thursday surgery but she expected me to be back at work on the Monday. I went to HR and they had a chat. I had three weeks off in the end.

Can you have a chat to hr, I think a lot of people don't understand how debilitating endo is.

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