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Original poster

Can employer insist I don't have elective surgery on a given date?

108 replies

fightingSmiths · 05/04/2021 09:46

I am waiting for surgery (elective) and will need more than a couple of weeks to recover (severe stage 4 endo). I spoke to my manager and he said as the business is incredibly busy and I am business critical, I will be expected to not go ahead with it anytime soon but to postpone it. The company's reasoning is along the lines elective = not important. I don't have an actual date yet and it may well be a while off but I am looking into funding it privatly as I am in severe pain on a daily basis.

Can work really disallow this procedure as it is not an emergency surgery? And what happens if I go ahead anyways?

OP posts:
FenceSplinters · 05/04/2021 15:11

I had to cancel my elective surgery and have it in the summer holidays as I wasn’t allowed the time off work.

CovidCorvid · 05/04/2021 15:14

Sounds like they don’t understand the concept of elective. It’s not something you choose to have done for fun. I think with endo the sooner it’s done the less likely it is to spread, so if you delay you may have bigger surgery or they may not be able to remove all of it and you be left with a permanent issue. Just tell them your dr says it can’t wait as you are deteriorating.

Original poster
fightingSmiths · 05/04/2021 15:28

@Dobbyafreeelf

Probably not helpful but I wouldn't stay in a job that valued me so poorly that they would argue over essential elective surgery.
if it would be easy to change I wouldn't take it. I have a child with complex needs and are the main carer and can only work school hours as no access to wrap around childcare. Almost impossible to find something else offering these hours esp now.
OP posts:
RedMarauder · 05/04/2021 15:37

@FenceSplinters

I had to cancel my elective surgery and have it in the summer holidays as I wasn’t allowed the time off work.
Why did you say it was elective or planned?

You should have told them that it is for an issue that is making you have a disability under the law. If you have the operation you may not continue to be disabled.

I had to do that for nasal surgery. Luckily for me I could work from my bed. Well I wasn't allowed to leave my home for 2 weeks and mix with people so apart from watching TV I had SFA to do.

Ariela · 05/04/2021 16:02

I also have some AL left and might see if I can use one week of AL for the recovery to take the financial strain out.

I would hold this card as a 'if it helps, I have 1 week AL due, I can save the company by using 1 week AL instead of a week of Statutory Sick as you'd still have to give me that week AL regardless' So it helps them in hours of your working time . Rather than tell them it works in your favour money wise.

cultkid · 05/04/2021 16:04

I can postpone it

But you need to pay for it privately before the date of the operation the NHS have offered

Hexinthecity · 05/04/2021 16:42

Just to reassure you on the recovery time line op I’ve had 3 surgeries for endo, first one I was back at work after 3 days, felt a bit crap but was fine. Second surgery was massive, I had a lot of endo removed and it was major surgery taking 5 hours. We went on holiday a month later and trough I was on painkillers I was able to walk around Morocco for a couple of weeks. Third surgery was another major one and I was off for 2 months. So it really does vary, 1-2 weeks might be realistic but on the other hand it could be longer.

Your employers are being arseholes asking you to delay when you’re in so much pain. Defiantly go to your union

canigooutyet · 05/04/2021 16:54

My hysterectomy was deemed elective surgery even though it was needed to keep me alive.

I would email the idiot the definition of elective surgery with as many links as you can find explaining what elective is. I would also send some very graphic links to what endo is.

Would he have the same reaction if it was a man having elective surgery on his prostate or similar?

FenceSplinters · 05/04/2021 18:22

@RedMarauder I had to tell the employer what the surgery was, and he said it wasn’t an emergency, and therefore was elective and I would need to have it out of term time. Thankfully, I don’t work there any more.

Yummymummy2020 · 05/04/2021 18:25

Your surgery is based on medical need so you don’t need to worry, my job tried to pull that when I needed something done with my heart, hr swiftly intervened and told me to get it anytime. I agree with the poster that clarified that elective is simply planned ahead it does not mean you don’t need it!

canigooutyet · 05/04/2021 19:32

Or ask him how he expects the company to cope if the surgery gets cancelled and you end up going the A&E route? Would he expect you to discharge yourself to solve his staffing/work issues.

At least this way he is being given notice of your absence.

Once you get the letter with the date, email a copy to him and HR letting them know about your impending absence. Don't ask for permission. Just be clear and factual, my surgery has been booked for XX date and should hopefully be returning on YY date. Do you also need a fit note from the hospital? who. ime will happily write you one out. Even add such a relief for the company and myself that my medical issue will hopefully be resolved. (I'm sure others can help with the proper wording)

KaleJuicer · 05/04/2021 19:41

You were asking about recovery time - I have stage 4 endo and have had three operations over the last 20 years. The last op was extensive excision, fibroid removal, all over my bowels etc and I was absolutely fine after 2 weeks. Was pretty much back to near normal after 1 week. No oophectomy though, they just cut everything off my ovary that was sticking to everything else! Having said that I was fit, in good health and healthy weight all of which helps with recovery. I was fine a couple of days after each of my emergency c sections too - think I’m lucky with recovery!

SinkGirl · 05/04/2021 20:20

Every time I’ve had excision surgery I’ve been off for 3-4 weeks

GreyhoundG1rl · 06/04/2021 00:47

Why did you muddy the waters by introducing the word "elective"? It wasn't necessary and it's obviously been completely misunderstood. You need to rectify that in the first instance.

daisychain01 · 07/04/2021 04:58

OP, please prioritise your own health, your employer sounds like they are ignorant and are not supporting you with essential surgery ( I suggest you use the term essential).

Do they know the definition of your condition? It would be worth giving them the following definition:

It is a chronic and often debilitating condition that can cause painful or heavy periods. It may also lead to infertility, fatigue and bowel and bladder problems. Around 1.5 million women in the UK are currently living with the condition. Endometriosis can affect all women and girls of a childbearing age, regardless of race or ethnicity. The impact can also be felt for life.

As previously stated, don't dismiss your protection under the Equality Act (2010). This condition is only suffered by women. That's EA territory, sex being a protected characteristic.

I'm shocked they don't cover you beyond SSP if they're "blue chip" - have you got the latest copy of their sickness policy to see what it says about how many days' sickness absence per annum they give employees?

daisychain01 · 07/04/2021 05:07

@GreyhoundG1rl

Why did you muddy the waters by introducing the word "elective"? It wasn't necessary and it's obviously been completely misunderstood. You need to rectify that in the first instance.
The OP has already clarified that she only used elective on here (brevity of information).

I think essential is an appropriate descriptor here, because it is. I'd be considering your position there OP if they treat employees so badly.

Fucket · 07/04/2021 05:19

I suspect though, given your circumstances and your working hours etc they’re just being difficult to get you to leave. This is what my old company did to a P/T mother who they wanted to do more hours and felt was risking more people pushing for this option. They just basically bullied her into leaving. Not good.

Original poster
fightingSmiths · 07/04/2021 06:39

have you got the latest copy of their sickness policy to see what it says about how many days' sickness absence per annum they give employees?

what do you mean?

OP posts:
TheDinosaurTrain · 07/04/2021 06:50

How long have you worked there? Are you sure you’re only entitled to SSP? Most companies have a sliding scale of sick pay above SSP for employees that have been there for more than a little bit.

Good luck with the surgery and I would ask your consultant (via their secretary) how long they think you’re likely to be off work, they’ll have a good idea of recovery times.

GirlofInkandStars · 07/04/2021 06:51

I’ve talked to a few people who I would regard as otherwise intelligent who thought that elective surgery is basically cosmetic -surgery you choose to have.

This was in the context of the NHS cancelling elective during covid and these people saying it wasn’t an issue...

They were shocked when I explained what it actually meant and that people were having very necessary procedures cancelled.

I would be pushing this point. That and the fact that you don’t get a choice in the NHS ( especially not at the moment) you postpone you end up at the back of the queue

Original poster
fightingSmiths · 07/04/2021 06:52

How long have you worked there? Are you sure you’re only entitled to SSP? Most companies have a sliding scale of sick pay above SSP for employees that have been there for more than a little bit.

I am fairly sure I am able to read my contract. Wink

OP posts:
Mucklemore · 07/04/2021 07:03

I don't see they have any choice - your consultant will do you a sick note following the surgery and you can self cert for the first 5 days following surgery. Gp will do you a longer note as needed.

They cannot stop you going off sick. They can use excessive sick leave to start a from of disciplinary but that's usually 3 periods in a year not one longer period.

You've told them. I'd just reiterate you're in excruciating pain and you'll be taking the date when offered.

CovidCorvid · 07/04/2021 12:07

Also the hospitce won’t be keen to defer the surgery as they will risk breaching whatever the current target is and will be fined if they breach. They’re more likely to take you off the list altogether and you’ll have to start from scratch, which could be a long wait in current times.

memberofthewedding · 07/04/2021 13:04

The way I see it your either fit for work or not. If a dr gives u a sick line (like any dr would post surgery - elective or not) then you are not fit for work and its not for the company to decide otherwise or to judge the reasons. You are medically declared unfit for work for x number of week full stop. I would go ahead with the surgery if I was you.

This>

Not to have your surgery might lead to further complications and even more pain and suffering. Your boss' attitude is inexcusable.

Does he know you are funding privately? I would tell him it is NHS and you have to go in when they have a bed and thats it.

BusyLizzie61 · 07/04/2021 15:18

@fightingSmiths
I also suffer with endo. You have my sympathies.
I would, in an email to your line manager, ccing HR, that you have planned surgery for a chronic condition (that does by the sounds of it meet the dda definition, though I appreciate you don't want to test this). I would reiterate that this is not a "life choice" surgical procedure and that delaying may well result in you being unfit for work. I would also request an occupational health referral.

The document An employer’s guide to managing endometriosis at work may assist your employer.