Solicitor back at work three months, not sure how much longer I can cope...advice?

[RoRoMommy]

Hello everyone. I've got a 7 month old lovely DS, and I've been back at work part time (which is M-F, 9-5 in my line of work) as a solicitor for a major US firm with an office in London. I love my job, insofar as I like the work I do, but I hate it because of the pressure, stress, and time away from DS. Plus I am getting very little sleep, and still bf so pumping twice a day at work.

I know I don't want to be a SAHM, but I don't think I can continue doing five days away from DS (I see him for max 1 1/2 hours a day, and during his cranky time). Plus I feel very insecure at my job because my office is opposite a woman of similar level without children who works like a robot and my boss is always in her office chatting her up and laughing, and he never comes by my office to chat anymore and I feel like a complete outcast.

If I could remove my emotional connection to my job, I think it would be easier, but I've been an overachiever all my life so there is an input-output relationship going on here--if I feel good about my job, I feel good about myself. If I don't, then I feel crap.

So, what should I do? Try to change jobs, which would mean, in all likelihood, a dramatic reduction in pay, to get more reasonable hours, try to remove my emotional connection to my job and continue on with it, or begin planning to start my own business (which is a dream I've had for a long time)?

Maybe all I really want is for someone to tell me that I am doing a brilliant job, they can't see how I manage to continue, and I am a good person.

I think you are doing brilliantly .

I have just gone back (been back for 2 months now) to Finance and my children are school age and I'm finding it hard. And I don't have a baby AND I'm not breastfeeding! I wanted to cry every Monday morning for weeks but come the end of every week, I was starting to enjoy it! I too am the only senior woman in the office (I'm in Finance not in law) and one of only 3 or 4 people who have children (and the others are all men!).

I can't comment on career paths but I do think it is worth giving it a few months to see how you feel. You won't believe how quickly the time goes and hopefully, the feeding schedule will become less demanding too.

The don't want to work silly hours but don't want to be a SAHM dilemma is hard to resolve imo!

Thanks anniemac, legalalien and foxinsocks legalalien I think I might have the same confidence issue as you as a PSL, but I'd like to give it a shot. I would love to talk through with you your experience...

anniemac, I am going to take the QLTT ASAP, for sure, and I would love to meet up for a City lunch...legal, maybe we can talk then, as well?

foxinsocks, I think it's a good idea to stay put for at least a few more months, particularly since my mum is coming from LA to live with us and help with child care, it might put things into a bit more of a balance because I'll definitely be getting more sleep. OTOH, that isn't going to help the stress/reaching for bberry/not feeling like I can be 100% of my job on 85% of a schedule, which dammit is still 9-5.

1dilemma, thanks for the pumping/supply advice. I think I will try to get hunker/tiktok's advice (though I think I might have accidentially insulted one or both of them on a previous post, not sure...

Okay, posting my contact details now, so anyone please feel free if you have a moment, to contact me, or send your details and I'll get in touch with you. This thread has been incredibly helpful, thank you so much!

Sabrina 07921 384457
[email protected]

Hi Sabrina,

I'm hoping to make it to lunch on the 22nd (not least so that I can meet anniemac) so happy to chat then, alternatively, on the off chance that you're at Canary Wharf (seems to me a possibility having done a brief mental stock take of US law firms doing a lot of finance work) we could meet for lunch or a coffee here at some point.

OK - just re-read this - E2 not E14, then.

Hey ellehcim, I'd love to chat more about your firm...can I get in touch with you? Hope you're having fun with your little ones!

hi sabrina
you sound much happier which is great. one thing I'd suggest is that if you are (a) sure you are going to give it a few more months and (b) know that you want another baby, then why don't you stick it out at the same firm for a bit longer than a few months, and get pg a bit quicker than you might originally have been planning.

It is much easier to go on another bout of maternity leave from the same firm (where you have built up your entitlement, and where they are basically expecting you to do it anyway), than move to a new firm, get your feet under the desk and settled, do a year to get your entitlement up, and THEN go on Mat leave. Then after that you can work out what you want to do after that - go somewhere new, move sideways into a different, more family friendly area of law, maybe do your transfer test towards the end of your mat leave, whatever.

Its just something to think about.

And also you might find it easier to mentally deal with the workload and juggling if you ahve a goal in sight like "OK this time in a year I'll be on mat leave again"

minty, I like the way you think!

...now, just convincing DH might be tricky He'd like to have one out of nappies before the other one arrives.

I think the nappy issue is a bit of a minor one compared to the sorting-your-life-out-so-it-works-for-you issue

Anyway I think as long as he is in agreement in principle with the idea of a second child, you can be 100% responsible for the timing. Just show him the positive pregnancy test and he won't be worried about nappies

Best of luck

Hi,

Just wanted to send a big hug to Roro too.

You make us women proud. I know how hard it can be working in this type of field and raising children at the same time: I have seen my female boss doing something similar and don't know how she does it.

I myself am trying to decide what to do at the end of my maternity but will start a different thread since this one is all yours...

Whatever you do, well done!

Thank you so much, Letsdoit. The support I've received from this post has been remarkable and means the world.

Good luck to you, too! I'll be looking out for your post, and if I have any insights by then I promise to share them!

OP - just spotted this US law cap markets / corporate PSL job and thought I'd post it in case you were interested. I'm guessing the salary might be expressed in USD (if not, I might reconsider being a PSL!)

www.thelawyer.com/cgi-site/jobsearch.cgi?action=detail&id=375509

(might help if I posted the link)

Am entirely new to this site, but just wanted to add my bit of support RoRoMummy. I am ex-magic cicle, ex-us firm and now mid-tier firm corporate real estate lawyer currently on mat leave after having my DD (already have a 2 1/2 year little boy). Before I went on mat leave was doing 4 days a week 9-5 and now considering going back on same basis. I did find that after I went back on mat leave did have a definite drop in status as was always having to leave office at 5 and couldn't be around for the big deals and it was a definite struggle, but at the same time my firm have been incredibly supportive and I think if you can find the right firm and the right support it can work to some extent. I do think the legal world is so far behind my other careers in being baby friendly. If enoug hof us shout loudly enough maybe we can make a difference.

OMG legalalien! That is seriously the perfect job! Hooray! I am totally going to apply. I am so excited!

Ralphmum, sounds like me, but you're me two years from now...I know what you mean about drop in status, and my problem as well is that I can't not be on deals, because we're a small office, so I've closed two deals in the last three weeks essentially on my own...meaning lots of hours and stress, which is taking a toll on me physically. Today I had a first...I had to call a client whilst pumping. Just hoping he didn't hear the pump in the background! Gross.

Thanks again everyone for your support!

Hi RoRomummy

I haven't got time to read all the posts.. ( am a 3rd yr LLB with 3 kids to boot) so I apologise if I am treading over ground already covered.

Have you thought about lecturing?? The Times have recently advertised for lecturers for The College of Law. Lectures in The COL need to be qualified solicitors and have 3 years experience and a 2:1 LLB degree... that's it!!! The money is ok ( better than not working) and the hours look good.

You could, if you choose this path, keep up to date with current legislation and law ( so you could return to practice in a few years) and see your little 'un.

It's an idea???

Jo xxxxxx

I always worked full time with all the children. On the breastfeeding I had a battery operated pump. They all seemed to wean though by about a year - I never initiated that. It was sad in a way but the period when you're expressing isn't that long. My oldest is 23 (years not months) now and I am so glad I continued that work in the City full time right through her childhood. She knows I love my work (and her) and it is definitely worth slogging out the under 5s years with children which i s really hard work at home (many women get depressed at home) and is hard for anyone male female worker or housewife. i really don't think ti's easier part time and you just shoot your career to pieces. Just fast forward. I am in my 40s. The oldest 3 children are at university - my work is huge fun, the child care issues are a long way away. I never sabotaged my work. I can work for the next 20 years, hopefully more. Now I couldn't really do that in the way I want had I changed roles to a support function.

I think you're just adjusting to this stage of working and having a baby and that it will get easier.

Sleep was always my biggest problem because none of the babies slept well until they were a year old but again you can just wait that out and it will improve.

Travel - I was never in a travelling role very much, may be just a few times a year. Work given to me... not sure. I think I generated quite a bit of it myself anyway rather than always had it doled out.

Most important issue is always the father actually - when the mother is regarded as primary childcarer and rushes home to be first home it won't work properly. You need an equitable relationship at home where your career is as important as his (if you've chosen to have a him at all) and you aren't always the one rushing home to let the nanny go or do a nursery collection....and I would plan to get pregnant before the next one is 18 months or 20 months. Having them close together is more fun which is why I've now got 3 at university at the same time I suppose.

And the children will prefer that you work by the way so ditch any guilt and you will do better by them by working full time too.

RoRo, how are you doing now?

It's quite interesting what you say about being in a small firm. I've always worked for multinationals but this time, have taken a job with a smaller company. The job sounded more flexible on paper but in reality, being in a small office has enormous drawbacks and I have found that the long hours culture is much worse than any of the other large companies I used to work for.

It's also a lot more transparent if you are not around late in the day or go out for lunch because you're more responsible for your own workload (well, not exactly that, but in large firms you tend to have teams of people rather than doing everything yourself).

Maybe it will be worth your while looking around for another job in the meantime!

In a bigger and better firm even, more slack, more consideration. People slag off the bigger firms very unfairly in my view.

I just think having small children is hard work whether you work or not and it isn't some wonderful nirvana to work part time or not to work at all - in fact it's often worse and you pay the price over the next 30 years of your career. It usually means you're not likely to do so well long term either and your children never thank you for that. Too many martyr mothers around who lay down their lives for the little darlings who long term don't benefit and couldn't care less anyway.

roro - only just seen this thread and now kick myself for not coming yesterday to the lunch (not that I had a choice in the matter, mind).

anyway - just wanted to second the suggestion that going in-house could be very attractive solution - our Transaction Mgmt dept in my bank (which isn't a big house by any means) has four lawyers of which 3 work part-time, either 3 or 4 days a week. Because they are a team it works fine because they all cover each other (although each has their own speciality). I am not sure if our legal dept does the same but certainly within the front office, everyone is very supportive of part-timers (it reflects very well on them to say they have high level staff working flexi-time)

I do a 40-hour 4-day week and have found that (apart from having to fight to grab back some of my work post-maternity leave) everyone treats me EXACTLY the same as if I were doing a 5 day week and they don't bat an eyelid when I swap my regular day off to attend school concerts or whatever. Have had amazing experience this morning of having 6 country managers shift a meeting for me because it clashed with DS's first nativity play, which made me feel very very glowy inside. Having spent my whole career working closely with corporate lawyers I know that this kind of attitude is rare in the big legal firms. Have a think about it... happy to chat more if you want...

Hi RoRo Mommy
I work in at a MC firm and one of my colleagues who has two very small children just negotiated 8-4, Mon- Thursday. I think it's unprecedented for our firm but basically she was doing 8-4, 5 days a week and was very stressed and unhappy. She basically threatened to go elsewere unless they agreed to the 4 day week so maybe you could try that? I think most firms would rather compromise that lose a valued fee earner. I'm lucky though as my colleague has paved the way for me (I hope!)

And not all women do want shorter hours or men either. Amusingly in surveys British workers often don't want shorter hours. They quite like the extra pay, status and even avoiding children's bed times. So not everyone is the same, even amongst women. But if you're good as people say above then in some jobs it's possible employers will be more flexible to keep people.

I do think too many women make career sacrifices men don't and then when their children are older resent it so do look forward to when you're 45, 55, 65 and whether decisions taken now have an impact on how life will be then when the children won't want you and may be you're single etc

Xenia , I think you bring up an important perspective, and you certainly represent a cross-section of the solutions to this dilemma. For me personally, it is a struggle I've had; am I going to step off of the "fast track" to spend more time with my son and I'll never get back and it won't matter to DS anyway, or it would matter more if he saw me as a successful, professional woman? I am considering a PSL role currently at a very big international law firm, and I wonder how it would feel to work alongside the professionals I used to be, whether it would be a blow to my self-esteem or just my ambition and drive?

That said, I do think it will matter to DS that I set aside time in my professional life for him, and whether he ever understands that consciously or is able to tell me. And even if it isn't true, in my mind part of being a good person, part of succeeding in my life, is becoming the mother I want to be and I am currently unable to be that mother, or at least I don't feel like I am.

It's funny because when I think of the next 30 years of my career, I feel the opposite inclination; if I have another 30 years to do this job, then what's five years off of the fast track to spend raising my babies when they're little? I've got so much of my professional life ahead of me.

As for the man part, I've got an incredibly supportive husband who is watching the X-Factor alone and is very unhappy about that so this is part 1 and part 2 will come shortly...

You might feel second rate and resent the right you won't earn £500k - £1m a year you otherwise might have managed for a start. I have three children now at university and I think they're pretty pleased my career. They don't seem damaged by having had their child care shared between two parents and a day nanny. Also over those 23 years of being a mother I've seen so many women widowed or left by their man for a younger woman or whatever. But my main point is I did not enjoy long hours with small children at home and knew that so that made it even easier for me. I can certainly remember the physical wrench of leaving a breastfeeding baby to work but I got used to that.

I suppose I felt I was the mother I wanted to be - the full time working mother who also like most parents of whatever sex tried to get home in reasonable time at least a few days a week and spend a lot of time with them in holidays and weekends too. But could never have imagined myself as a mother at home so I was always the mother I had hoped to be. Also I had 5 children over a long period so it's not like short burst of 2 children close toegther over 5 years in my 30s. I am now in year 23 of mother hood and I'm only 45 and the twins are only 9. So when they go off to university I will have had 33 years of babies and school children at home with the full time work over that period too. It's a very different way of doing it than the 2.4 children "I will work part time for 5 years" way people sometimes do it. Interesting that I love children and wanted so many over such a long period may be because I got the chance to be the mother and also worker that I wanted to be (and love the work too!).

You may be able to work fewer hours and then do more later and not lose the chance to be an equity partner but with some types of work that just isn't possible whether you're male or female.

I'm new to this thread; just sped read a bit of it. Sorry I'm not in the Legal Eagle world so can't offer any advice on that, but I run my own business and have a 2 year old and you sound like you have so much energy and drive (I can't imagine expressing whilst at work in a high pressure job; I'm so impressed!) Anyway you sound so driven that if you did start your own business it seems it would very likely be a roaring success. I have thought recently of starting a cafe. The area I live in is full of babies and Mums but no cafes with any room to even get a pram through the door, let alone one that serves kids meals. It seems such a no brainer. I'm in South London. I would suggest going with your instincts. Your baby isn't going to be a baby for very long; I've been stunned how fast it goes. I arrange my work so I can hang out with my son loads. He's more fun than any job, even the fun glamourous jobs; though it would be a bit dull if I didn't also have some work to stimulate me. If you're self employed you can set the balance to suit you. I've gone away on work for a whole week abroad then spent the next three weeks running just hanging out at Mum and Toddler groups. Don't stay on a treadmill if it's making you unhappy. It sounds like your hubby is supportive so why not dive into your own business? If you live in London you probably had to borrow tens of thousands to buy your flat/house so what's the prob with borrowing £15,000 to start a cafe? Sorry does that sound reckless? Ignore me if you like!