I'm going to have to turn down this offer aren't I?

[Accounting101]

I'm in a dilemma and I'm desperate for some kind of reassurance. I've got an offer for a graduate scheme at a good accounting firm to start later in the year.

I'm mid-20's and a lone parent. I was concerned before applying whether I would be able to manage with accounting being prone to long hours and all the studying involved. But, I'd got in touch with someone at the firm who assured me that this particular office pretty much never goes beyond 9-5 for my department (fine, as my LO will be in nursery). I'm also very used to studying nights and weekends so that isn't much of a problem.

I thought I had it all planned out. Yesterday, however, I spoke to someone in the firm who in conversation mentioned the bock study leave I'd need to go on for the training courses. Probably very naive of me but I had assumed these would be local. They're not, it would be a 2 hour journey to a different city and would require me to stay there for 2 (or more) weeks at a time.

I don't have a supportive family so asking them to watch DC isn't really an option. I'm going to have to drop the offer won't I?

Just gutted because I really wanted this opportunity and I feel like I'm going to end up trapped in a NMW job because of my circumstances (very aware this is a sitaution I've got myself into, but it doesn't make it any easier). The firm don't know I have a child. I know the courses were remote this year due to Covid, but having asked, they think these will be back to normal should things with Covid clear up. Even if that isn't true of this year, I'm assuming it will at some point throughout the 3 year training period, in which I'll be stuck in the same situation.

Aghh I'm just gutted, I really wanted this job (was up against a fair few so I was also very lucky) and it would be a great opportunity for me and my LO. I'm not sure why I'm really posting, Its just so frustrating and I feel rather hopeless at the moment!

I am sure if you talk to them something can be worked out please don't give it up!

Just piling in to say definitely talk to them

If you think about it there are lots of people who couldn’t easily go away for a block of time like that!
People with other caring responsibilities such as an elderly or disabled relative or partner, somebody’s own health or disabilities, or even pets!
Not that you should have to hide it but you don’t even have to be more specific than ‘caring responsibilities’ if you don’t want to say you have a child .

Hello,

I work in a large accounting firm and we had made the move to our trainees study being mostly home based self learning even before the pandemic. That is with BPP as the training provider which a lot of firms use. Previously the in persom study was in the local city centre so people didnt have far to travel but appreciate if you will be in a more remote office there may be more travel to in person stuff. Post-covid I am sure we'll be doing more online training and expect things to be a lot more flexible in terms of where you have to be for work e.g. home v office, is travel to clients necessary. Definitely speak to them about it before declining and see if you can work something out. The person you spoke to may be senior but out of touch with the trainee study! Good luck!

Glad you're going to speak to them. It is ok to have needs and to ask for help or support.

And stop being so flipping hard on yourself! You keep putting yourself down and it's really unnecessary. You are clearly very capable, you don't need to self-flagellate in order to be acceptable to others.

[quote Accounting101]@Polly99 that's good to hear and I will give it a go!

I just feel like such a burden having to get them to meet my needs, when they could have gone with one of the many other graduates who didn't have caring responsibilities (although, of course I'm very grateful that they did go with me).[/quote]
Dont start the job feeling "grateful"! You got the job because you're good enough. Its like any relationship, value what you bring to it or you're asking to be walked over

I know others have said it, but def look at childminders. Mine does over nights and weekends if people need her to. It's not like it's all the time.

Another one saying don’t turn this opportunity down. It sounds like a really great one!

Completely understand not wanting to be reliant on favours from your family which could fall through and be unreliable. Maybe temporary nanny on a per hour rate in the area where the course is would be cheaper, and then you take over the care afterwards. Or hopefully on the less complicated parts of the study, you can join remotely.

Good luck whatever you decide. And echoing another poster, you’re not just lucky, it would have been your hard work that got you accepted and you do deserve it

Surely it is discriminatory if single parents cannot accept the job/training due to this? They need to offer flexibility.

@Logistria @PenguindreamsofDraco

Thank you! I have worked very hard over the last few years and to get into the job (also simultaneously working on my self-esteem lol).

Don't turn it down - not yet anyway. What about an au pair? Is there anyone at all that would help for the 2 weeks - it seems crazy you have got there and may have to turn it down! I would accept and see if you can't sort something out in the meantime. E.g. local lady willing to look after your LO for w lots of 5 days, something like that. Good luck!

@LunaHeather

Studying online would be cheaper for them too.

I hope you get something sorted.

Btw if I could turn back time, I'd do accountancy!

This exactly. I think a lot of companies will be reviewing the way they do things like training in the future. Online/remote learning is a lot more cost effective, just as firms are realising that huge offices being occupied for less than 50 hours a week but needing insurance, heating, lighting, cleaning and security is an enormous expense. If nothing else Covid has shaken up working practices that have been entrenched for centuries.

Yes, talk to them. It is very reassuring how flexible companies can be at times, especially when you are really valued (as you seem to be).

I'm also a LP with limited support and have a very senior role, which would normally require significant global travel. From the off, I explained (very nicely) that this would be a problem and got agreement to try for remote working as much as possible. To that end I have managed to deliver global programmes without moving from my desk or, at times, meeting any of my team in person. In my case, as I proved I could deliver, the pressure to travel became almost a non-argument and, actually, it now means that I work exactly the same from my home as I used to from my desk.

However, I digress. Essentially, this isn't likely to be the first time they had to deal with this situation (especially if it is one of the big firms), so are hopefully likely to try to help you work out a compromise as much as possible.

Best of luck and very well done on getting the job!

@TillyTopper I had thought about an au pair but having looked at the prices, my wage wouldn't cover it on top of rent etc.

The thing with childcare is that I would need to rely partially on the 30 free hours which has to be ofsted registered. I have some (not a lot) of savings behind me so the odd week when away would be do-able. But, they said it averages to about 1 week a month. Doesn't sound like a lot but it would eat all and above of my savings in no time with extortionate childcare costs.

If I use a childminder or creche closer to the study centre I would also need to pay for the full time nursery space (which I'd need for working in the office), which again my salary wouldn't permit on top of prolonged weeks away. It would be do-able if the company could offer some financial contribution, but of course I'm not sure this is a possiblity.

I just want to echo everyone here and say talk to them.

But also, well done. You obviously work bloody hard despite minimal support. You are already a tremendous role model to your DD. I really do wish you well for your career

Firstly, well done - I know how hard it is to get one of those places, so you should be really proud of yourself.

Secondly, I agree with everyone else that you absolutely should discuss it with them. Not only because companies will be looking at doing things differently in the future (space requirements per employee are already changing as more businesses move to a more flexible working pattern) but also companies are much more aware other benefits of having a diverse workforce. You have skills and experience that will be hugely valuable.

And you've shown that you can achieve an enormous amount whilst raising a child single-handedly. Really don't underestimate about what that says about you as a person.

@Northernlass99

Surely it is discriminatory if single parents cannot accept the job/training due to this? They need to offer flexibility.

Well technically 'single parent' is not a protected status legally - pregnancy/maternity is, as is sex, but parenthood in general and single parenthood specifically, no. Some people/some case law consider anything which discriminates against parents and particularly single parents as a class, to be discriminatory, because women are proportionately more likely to have caring responsibilities and/or be sole carer than men. But either way, even if it is discriminatory it's not necessarily illegal to discriminate, or compulsory to offer flexibility. It depends on the circumstances of the case, the reason for the discriminatory requirement and whether it is reasonably possible to adjust it. Some jobs e.g. emergency workers, nursing have night shifts as a pretty integral part of the role which is difficult for single parents. Some have working away from home for weeks at a time as a requirement e.g. oil riggers, soldiers, which I can only imagine is impossible for a single parent of a pre-school child. If a single parent applied for one of those roles the company wouldn't HAVE to accommodate them, but should if they could. From what OP has expanded in the thread it seems there's a very good chance there's both a will and a way to make this work for her, which is brilliant. I suspect if the firm has a good reputation for inclusivity she may not even be the first to ask for or be given adjustments (it may just be that the person she spoke to wasn't aware of this, if you haven't actually seen things in practice it's easy to say 'it has to be this way' when what you really mean is 'it's always been this way in my experience'.)

But as others have said she's best off approaching it at least at first in a spirit of conciliation and 'how can we work together to make this work for us both' rather than a 'it's my legal right, you have to do this' approach. Even where the latter is technically correct, as a first conversation it's not a brilliant look and will tend to get people's backs up...

Also do talk to your dm about your dilemma, she might surprise you. I suspect she was worried that having a child whilst you were studying wasn't a good idea but might be more helpful as you have an offer of a job with a good career path.

I'd definitely talk to them before you turn it down re options.

Big 4 accountancy firms can be quite corporate in their thinking but they also have to be diverse in who they recruit and this includes single parents and provisions for study.

I'd be surprised if you're the only single parent (male or female) who has expressed that they may have difficulty with this.

ask HR if they can help either with doing online OR can they find you childcare for the week (& pay for it or at least supplement) alternatively is the course done in a college/uni ring them direct & find out if they offer childcare?

Not read all posts. I do wonder whether this is the firm I work for. Please don’t turn it down without talking to them. They (or we!) are hugely focused on inclusivity and diversity and wouldn’t want to lose a great candidate over this. Plus not a cat in hells chance of these courses being in person after Easter in my view...

I did the graduate tax scheme with one of the big four accounting firms (2015 start) and they were always changing how they conducted the courses. I had to go live in London for months but someone on the scheme two years after me got to stay in the home office and do private study. Personally, after spending my time at university doing lots of independent study I found the sit-in classes with their handhold method more annoying than helpful and would much have preferred to just stay in the home office and study. You could try to ask about studying in your office and see if that's acceptable to them. I wouldn't turn it down as it's a good job to have.

Not a parent, or an accountant. But as a disabled person I’ve found a lot of people will tell me things are done like this or whatever and can’t be changed. This tends to be a random person presenting something as fact because of “what’s always happened.” When you ask someone who specifically deals with these things or is higher up they often either know of alternatives or are open to suggestions.

Speak to HR before you do anything.

with regards to childcare, look and see if the nursery has a branch near the training center as you could maybe split your care? alternatively, if you are going to be near sw london then ill help you (im ofsted registered!)

My DD wanted to do a post grad course but by the time her employer approved it she couldn't get on a course locally. She found an online course and her employer was happy for her to do it, I think it was cheaper for one thing and no travel expenses.

Ask, the worst that can happen is they say no.

@HidingInTheLight

Not a parent, or an accountant. But as a disabled person I’ve found a lot of people will tell me things are done like this or whatever and can’t be changed. This tends to be a random person presenting something as fact because of “what’s always happened.” When you ask someone who specifically deals with these things or is higher up they often either know of alternatives or are open to suggestions.

Speak to HR before you do anything.

I think this is spot on. Just because someone else in the company did it a certain way doesn't mean they won't be flexible for you if you explain situation to right person.