I'm going to have to turn down this offer aren't I?

[Accounting101]

I'm in a dilemma and I'm desperate for some kind of reassurance. I've got an offer for a graduate scheme at a good accounting firm to start later in the year.

I'm mid-20's and a lone parent. I was concerned before applying whether I would be able to manage with accounting being prone to long hours and all the studying involved. But, I'd got in touch with someone at the firm who assured me that this particular office pretty much never goes beyond 9-5 for my department (fine, as my LO will be in nursery). I'm also very used to studying nights and weekends so that isn't much of a problem.

I thought I had it all planned out. Yesterday, however, I spoke to someone in the firm who in conversation mentioned the bock study leave I'd need to go on for the training courses. Probably very naive of me but I had assumed these would be local. They're not, it would be a 2 hour journey to a different city and would require me to stay there for 2 (or more) weeks at a time.

I don't have a supportive family so asking them to watch DC isn't really an option. I'm going to have to drop the offer won't I?

Just gutted because I really wanted this opportunity and I feel like I'm going to end up trapped in a NMW job because of my circumstances (very aware this is a sitaution I've got myself into, but it doesn't make it any easier). The firm don't know I have a child. I know the courses were remote this year due to Covid, but having asked, they think these will be back to normal should things with Covid clear up. Even if that isn't true of this year, I'm assuming it will at some point throughout the 3 year training period, in which I'll be stuck in the same situation.

Aghh I'm just gutted, I really wanted this job (was up against a fair few so I was also very lucky) and it would be a great opportunity for me and my LO. I'm not sure why I'm really posting, Its just so frustrating and I feel rather hopeless at the moment!

@Charteredbeancounter

As another ICAEW qualified FCA, I'd echo - please don't turn it down!!

They are very likely to be able to make adjustments for you, even if they don't really want to they will love an opportunity to prove their inclusive attitude!

Block accountancy courses are common but the big accountancy course providers have various methods of course delivery, it is definitely worth investigating.

The ACA/CTA combined route sounds fantastic and will stand you in really good stead to go on to other things if you want afterwards. I have been running my own practice for 15 years now and the flexibility is amazing!

I agree on this last point - tax professionals are worth their absolute weight in gold - very few and far between and as such get snapped up for very, very good salaries.

The ACA/CTA linkup is an excellent progression of the qualifications and well worth doing.

Speak to them, I work in professional services. They shd / cd look for another way for you to do the course. We did similar in same situation.

Take the job. Very likely residential won't be running and that this type of course will be delivered online. And even if it is they will help you.

My dd has just qualified as a tax accountant. She did the last year of her training WFH, and all her studying transferred to online. She had lots of study weeks prior to each exam. Even pre Covid, lots of her study time was online. I think she did a couple of weeks in college but she didn't have to go away anywhere, apart from when she first started - the induction week was in a hotel, but i believe they don't do that now because of Covid.
Another aspect of this is that it could be seen as discrimination if they expect you to spend study weeks away from home, as it only impacts parents.

Take the job. The studying can be done remotely as now proved so I'm sure this could bge done for you when the time comes as well.
Don't refuse it on what ifs and unknowns at this stage.

I know it is harder at the beginning of your career than where I am with mine but I always took the view if a prospective employer wasn't prepared to offer the flexibility I need as a parent then I don't want to work with them.

Talk to them, see what they can do. Employers are getting better with being flexible and the past year has had many start to accept remote working is a good way of working. There will be people at the moment doing these classes remotely and that will likely be offered to more in the future. You'd be saving your employer the costs of travel and accommodation, they may well be happy to take you up on it.

Don't be afraid to ask for what you need. Always make sure they know you understand the flexibility works both ways. If they are traditional 9-5 in the office type work place, you probably don't want to work for them anyway.

I am senior leadership in this industry and we have graduates starting every year doing ACA/CTA. If you were due to start in my office I would really want you to come forward and discuss it as I’m sure we could sort something to suit you. Most firms in the industry pride themselves on how good they are with working parents -they will do everything they can to be flexible, I’m sure. If we’d gone to the trouble of recruiting you and making you an offer, you are worth it and we want to make it work for you!

[quote Accounting101]@Mumski45 so I will on the combined ACA/CTA route (tax trainee), first 2 years will be on the ACA route only I believe![/quote]
I would bet money that you will be doing this with either BPP or Kaplan, both of which are 100% flexible. There's different options for each course but generally you can choose to do it fully online (either full days, mornings or afternoon only, evenings) or at the centre (again there's lots of these courses running so lots of different date 'sets' to choose from.
Echoing what everyone else said, do not turn it down until you have spoken to them, ACA/CTA is a great qualification to get under your belt.

Can you take your DM and your child with you? At least then she wouldn't be without you the whole time. Would your DM be prepared/able to do that? If not, do you have a friend who could help?

For what it's worth, I'd raise the issue now rather than waiting until you got asked to go on a residential (even though it might be 1yr+). You know about the issue now, so if you tackle it now 1) it'll be a weight off your mind and 2) if I were HR I would be slightly nonplussed if I suddenly found out after the residential was scheduled that you needed alternative arrangements when it could have been sorted long before.

"Dear HR contact, I'm really excited about starting with Company Y and am so much looking forward to blah blah blah. However, (person) mentioned that you expect residential training to resume in whatever period. As I am a lone parent, this would be very challenging for me. For the moment, this is not an issue, as I will be very much able to attend the remote training, but it would be good to discuss possible ways to manage this issue when it arises."

Alter to taste and detail.

I was in a very similar position to you a few years ago and am now ATT/CTA qualified tax adviser. It was tough going and I wanted to work through the qualifications quickly so I sat as many exams at any one time as I could which did mean a lot of studying in the evenings but I found it relatively easy to motivate myself given what I stood to gain. Unfortunately I’m based in Scotland where there was no in-person tuition available for either qualification so had to travel to Newcastle a lot, sometimes for weeks at a time, sometimes for a couple of nights only. I was very fortunate that my son was in nursery and my mum was able to do drop off/pick up and have him overnight for me on the days when I normally had him (she worked full time too but managed).

Things have changed now though, especially with Covid and a lot of the students at the firm I trained at are now doing the courses remotely (I actually think this could have been an option for me but didn’t look into it as I hadn’t realised at the time). Frankly it’s significantly cheaper for the firm themselves as they paid for all of my travel, hotels and meals etc as well as the actual tuition itself - and they were a relatively small firm. It’s definitely worth discussing with HR or the recruiting manager before thinking you’ll need to pass on the opportunity. It was definitely worth it and I qualified quickly and was able to get a decent bump up in salary for someone who was only 2-3 years in to their career, which helps when you’re own your own with kids!

@Aprilx

I have over thirty years experience in the accountancy world, I have qualified myself and managed many others through their qualification.

I have never heard of anybody going away for two weeks of block study. Never.

Don’t turn the opportunity down, research other options for study, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Out of interest how does it work when your colleagues have been gaining their ACCA/ACA/CTA qualifications then? I've worked in 3 different firms and each one used either BPP or Kaplan for the training both of which the nearest centre is 1.5hrs away by train. Sometimes you might only be there 2 days in a week but others it's the full 5 days so I can imagine some firms which are even further afield would choose to put the trainee up in a hotel to save them the journey each day.

I work in a firm like the one you describe - just sent you a PM to see if I can help

Sorry I probably didn't make it very clear, I accepted the job over a month ago, signed the contract etc (which stated nothing about staying away). They then asked yesterday if I can start a bit earlier, which is how I came to find out about the block study leave.

Thank you for all the encouraging posts, I was under the impression I would have to give the offer up, but I will work to see if they can accomodate my situation at all, or if any other options are a possibility.

In terms of flexibility, it is a big firm so I really hope they can offer something. They've all been very friendly so far, I think it's just presumed that most graduates who enter the schemes don't have children. I know they're big on inclusivity (a lot of my interview was geared around this), but I wasn't really aware that other options may be possible.

I really would like to go with this specific firm as well as its a good name, the team all seem great and if not, I would be set back another year before starting another scheme.

@Mumski45

No I have never personally come across anyone whose accountancy training involved staying a couple of weeks in a residential facility. I also trained in the early 90’s. As I said there is more than one way to skin a cat. Hope that is ok!

@Accounting101

The company I started with ran a graduate program, yes they did have a set provider. The format used for several years involved introductory classroom courses for each new topic, then there would be mid module classroom courses and finally revision classroom courses. The rest of the study would be done in the students own time. The classroom courses would run for a week or so at a time and study leave was provided, but it involved returning home at the end of each day so not much different to going to work. Possibly a bit more travel than normal but offset by shorter days than a typical office day.

I have seen other trainees having more regular weekly course, like evening classes or possibly half day a week. Everywhere I have worked has also allowed study leave for revision in the run up to exam time.

Well done for getting the job! You weren’t lucky to get it, you deserved to get it.

I hope it all pans out for you.

@LarsErickssong I spoke to someone from the office yesterday, if I remember correctly they said it was with Kaplan!

Some of those options would be far better suited to my sitatuion. Although, because others are also starting the scheme in different departments, I'm assuming we would all be expected to do it through the block study leave.

[quote Aprilx]@Mumski45

No I have never personally come across anyone whose accountancy training involved staying a couple of weeks in a residential facility. I also trained in the early 90’s. As I said there is more than one way to skin a cat. Hope that is ok!

@Accounting101

The company I started with ran a graduate program, yes they did have a set provider. The format used for several years involved introductory classroom courses for each new topic, then there would be mid module classroom courses and finally revision classroom courses. The rest of the study would be done in the students own time. The classroom courses would run for a week or so at a time and study leave was provided, but it involved returning home at the end of each day so not much different to going to work. Possibly a bit more travel than normal but offset by shorter days than a typical office day.

I have seen other trainees having more regular weekly course, like evening classes or possibly half day a week. Everywhere I have worked has also allowed study leave for revision in the run up to exam time.[/quote]
OP didn't say anything about it being a residential just that as it's 2hrs away they are out up in a hotel.

Definitely talk to your employer and consider taking her with you and using a nursery close to the training centre.

I took DD to lots of work events when tiny and she was always happy.

Maybe though it wont be residential with Covid still looming? Have a chat and explain your circumstances .They might be able to work something out for you .Dont give up yet!

I trained not too long ago (within 3 years at big 4). We had a mix of online learning (in 2 week blocks) and in person courses as we progressed to the more difficult exams. I think our Newcastle office did do the training in Manchester and some would stay over while doing it.

There will be huge flexibility from the employer. All courses will be available as live taught distance learning and your employer almost certainly won't have any issues with that. Additionally, they may be able to move you to a closer training centre. There is probably a Kaplan and BPP in Newcastle, it's just that the company will try and get a discount for booking out the whole class at certain locations.

Don't turn down the job - it's a great first career. Sets you up for life.

Also OP, to add a personal note, I worked in grad recruitment lo these many years ago and I would have been personally devastated if a good grad quit without even telling me what the problem was and seeing if we could solve it, especially when it's so eminently solvable. And that was more than ten years ago when virtual learning was much less developed. I would have gone out of my way to make sure we had a solution that worked and let us retain you.

@TeeBee it's a good suggestion but I really don't have a supportive family. I have had 1 day off in the past 3 years and it was hard to even get that (whole new issue in itself)

I feel a lot more comfortable getting something in place myself so I don't have to worry about being let down at the last minute

Think very carefully before turning it down ... seems a shame to do so for the sake of what is probably a handful of courses?

Please talk to them and see what could be worked out, if anything.

If nothing can be, then I guess the dates will at least be known well in advance - could you advertise for someone to accompany you to the hotel and take your child out in that city, while you are training? Perhaps a childcare trainee at a local FE college? It would cost you a absolute fortune of course, but for a handful of occasions and given the overall impact of this on your career and earning power, it would be worth getting into debt for, as an investment.

Could you approach childminders in the city?

There must be a way!

Please talk to HR. A lot of big firms are under a lot of pressure to show that they are attracting women/a diverse workforce and are keen to appear family friendly. I’m sure they can work something out for you; as others have said, the training providers often offer remote learning options these days. As another pp said, they probably haven’t thought about it as most graduates don’t have DC...but I certainly wouldn’t assume it’s the massive stumbling block you fear.