Voluntary Redundancy Offered - Now It is an Exit Package?! Advise Please

[mummytippy]

In short I have been off work since September suffering from anxiety and panic attacks. I opened communication with my employer regarding occupational health provision and they told me they did not have any, but would welcome my GPs recommendation. My Dr is recommending that I work from home. My employer has been telling me this isn't possible. I do accounts admin and have been told by the company's IT consultants it is possible via remote working on a laptop. I submitted a reasonable adjustment request and been turned down. The reason - logistics of transporting paperwork by other staff members- too costly, too time consuming but it can be scanned and emailed... or posted. Most of the company's suppliers and customers email their documents. Also, contamination? I will contaminate paperwork in my home? I've not heard of Covid 19 being transferable on paper?

Just before Christmas I was asked if I wanted to consider voluntary redundancy (also told strictly confidential) and was made a financial offer. I made it clear I didn't want to take such a redundancy. I want to work, but wfh. I was then told I would be informed of any decisions made. I heard nothing and after Christmas I contacted my employer to ask the latest on the redundancies, which process are they following and who does it affect. They replied they were exploring whether I would be interested in an 'exit package' in case I might not be going back to work. I feel completely mislead and spent the entire Christmas period (while they were closed) worrying about their decision and this certainly hasn't help with my panic attacks and anxiety. Any advise on this matter would be greatly appreciated. TIA.

This doesn’t help you in the slightest but if they were using Xero or Quickbooks it would be better
However, they are using Sage and by the sounds of it not properly if lots of paper is still being sent out and it’s unlikely they will change that to enable you to work at home
You need to deal with the situation as is rather than wish it were different. All those systems could be changed and your employer could arrange things to allow you to work at home but they don’t want to, which suggests they don’t want to keep you

Op

Do as recommended, outline each element of the job and how it can be done from home. Accept it’s a last ditch attempt and they are highly unlikely to change their minds which is their right. They have reasons for saying no which are fully acceptable. Just as your reasons for asking are. Reasonable adjustments are not an entitlement. Plus it’s hard to determine if you’d be classified as disabled.

Assuming they will not change their stance, which is fairly much a given, then you need to accept that. The next actions are yours. Do you wish to accept the package or go back to work in the office.

[quote mummytippy]@JustWatchMe

Thanks for your comment, Yes, still posting payslips. They were still posting remittance advices when I was put on furlough. More often than not the money would arrive in the suppliers account before they received their remittance. I was trying to move those onto being emailed.

You are right. One of the IT companies I contacted to find out what tech would be required has worked for them before and they said 'they have to get with the times one day' without any prompting from me!

I just wanted to clarify this point...

it's not a good enough reason to for example, want to change accounting software as you've asked on another thread - which frankly sounds like a bloody nightmare to even me and I thrive on change

I'm not wanting to change it as I know it doesn't need to be changed... it's cloud based Sage and operates with a server to back it up. I was just interested to know what other people are using [/quote]
They are ahead of us then. Our accounts are still done on an Excel spreadsheet. That is progress for us. Five years ago they were still being written out by hand.

The upshot is that by boss is the MOST efficient person I know and doesn't want to change to electronic systems on the basis that if it aint broke don't fix it and she knows that her paper based systems highlight any errors quickly and easily.

@JustWatchMe

You are going round in circles - repeating yourself over and over again - you need to stop! This is not a company you even want to work for - find a new job! Start fresh, your employer has not behaved in a very nice way but you are playing reruns in your head in a continual loop - you need to stop. And move on, go somewhere else

Yes, I do feel like I am!

So out of interest, how would you go back to them after their last email stating their reasons against? I was going to question the redundancy/exit package... in asking for clarification.

I think they are feeling like they might be viewed as treating me unfairly and so this is why they seemingly want rid of me now.

I doubt they think they are treating you unfairly, they are correct in stating their reasons why.

Do be aware op they have another route, which they haven’t raised yet. Which is they can move to capability termination. Which is if they deem you’re not capable of doing the job as they require, which you are stating you’re not, then they can terminate your contract.

Be really careful if you need this job. At the moment, they hold all the cards.

If you really want to keep your job, have you thought about suggesting a phased return (as they've asked) with the suggestion that you should be allowed short breaks if you panic, if necessary? You could suggest 1 day per week for 1 week, 2 days per week for 2 weeks, then 3 days per week. That could be reviewed if you struggle.

You have to start working with them instead of against them if you want to keep your job. If you don't want to keep it, then take the package before it's taken from you.

If your DS is 14, as a pp indicates, then barring SN, there's no reason why you can't go into the office.

Another thing to bear in mind, as stated above, is that your panic attacks aren't work related - you didn't start having them at work, or even about work. So you have no evidence that work would worsen them. How many panic attacks are you having per day/week/month right now? Are they reducing or increasing?

[quote mummytippy]@TDMN

Yes I gave them details of my panic attacks and advised they would be best managed at home in view that they had said no OH provision and no options given by then with regard to being able to go sit somewhere quiet, help with breathing etc.

I was told once before by my employer (verbally) that all personal matters have to be left at the gate and not brought into the office. That comment has never left me. I feel completely unsupported.[/quote]

On this basis ask to discuss with your manager what other adjustments they will be prepared to put in place for you. It isn't unreasonable for your employer to offer you a phased return/staggered hours and along with this additional rest periods to help you manage panic attacks.

Raise the comment at this point that was made with regards to leaving issues at the door and you feeling unsupported. What really is happening here is breakdown in communication if you are unwilling to be as open as you can with them and meet them half way then you don't have a leg to stand on. If you try everything you can and they are unwilling to support you in any way other than they want you in the office as normal then they are not showing their duty of care as an employer.

Keep the communication open and see how they respond, speak to acas as you are doing this to get their advice. Your not going to get the answer you want from this thread op.

If you try everything you can and they are unwilling to support you in any way other than they want you in the office as normal then they are not showing their duty of care as an employer

They have already made concessions though, inc phased return, time out if having a panic attack etc. They don’t need to go further than this

I also agree the op isn’t going to hear what she wants to hear. She needs to accept they are permitted to say no to her request to work from home and are within their rights to state the role has to be done from the office. They have said no and it is odds on they will continue to do so.

So it’s really going to come down to accept the package or go back under the terms offered. Or they will simply move to capability termination based on the reasons she’s given why she can’t work in the office.

@Bluntness100 agreed bluntness it's just difficult reading between the lines on the thread as op is saying they will not put any provisions in place with regards to being able to have additional rest breaks or sit somewhere quiet etc however phased return has been offered so they are quite obviously giving her some options but not what she wants to hear.

[quote mummytippy]@JustWatchMe

You are going round in circles - repeating yourself over and over again - you need to stop! This is not a company you even want to work for - find a new job! Start fresh, your employer has not behaved in a very nice way but you are playing reruns in your head in a continual loop - you need to stop. And move on, go somewhere else

Yes, I do feel like I am!

So out of interest, how would you go back to them after their last email stating their reasons against? I was going to question the redundancy/exit package... in asking for clarification.

I think they are feeling like they might be viewed as treating me unfairly and so this is why they seemingly want rid of me now.[/quote]
You should figure out what you want out if an exit package: this should include at minimum enough paid time for you to find a new job and a decent reference. Then go back and suggest that. You might not get everything you want, but if you ask for a large amount for a quick and easy (for them) exit you may get a lot more than statutory (which as you have said would be a week paid per year worked). But the longer the negotiation goes on, the weaker your position gets so act now!

I think they are feeling like they might be viewed as treating me unfairly and so this is why they seemingly want rid of me now.

I don't think they believe they are treating you unfairly - they have a way of working, they are not prepared to change, you can't force they to change(although I think you still believe you should morally be able to) for reasons they have outlined which are reasonable. I expect you are a loose end and they just want to sort out what's happening because this situation is dragging on an unacceptable length of time - they want you to either come into the office or get another job.

I expect if you have been as persistent with them as you have been on this thread they are also getting a little tired of being asked the same question over and over again and not accepting the answer is very wearing.

Please for everyone's sake, especially your own, move on to a job that suits you and allows you to work from home. We are a small company - 99% of what we do is set up to be paperless it makes wfh very easy - working from anywhere is very easy - we even supply privacy screens to our employees so they can work in coffee shops if it suits them, but our employees are hard to recruit - they have very niche skills - we work hard to keep them happy because if they left we'd struggle to replace them.

You cannot change a dinosaur, you have tried, they've said no. Move on.

[quote Allispretty]@Bluntness100 agreed bluntness it's just difficult reading between the lines on the thread as op is saying they will not put any provisions in place with regards to being able to have additional rest breaks or sit somewhere quiet etc however phased return has been offered so they are quite obviously giving her some options but not what she wants to hear.

[/quote]
I thought the OP just wanted to work from home - full stop! - I missed the bit where they said they'd go into the office if they had a quiet area to escape to.

@JustWatchMe i believe this is what she does want but is now pulling apart everything that has been done/said which is the usual case when the relationship between employer/employee starts to breakdown.

@JustWatchMe

Thank you. I hear you. No, Dinosaurs do not change.

Just so you know, work have not offered for me to sit somewhere quiet, help with breathing etc. This was something someone else had posted which was suggested to them by their employer as part of OH. Phased return was offered but as my GP recommended my home environment as being better I've focussed on that.

Phased return is to ease you back into work after a long absence, not to give you space for panic attack recovery. It’s an extremely common measure, hence being a part of the GP fitnote.

[quote mummytippy]@JustWatchMe

Thank you. I hear you. No, Dinosaurs do not change.

Just so you know, work have not offered for me to sit somewhere quiet, help with breathing etc. This was something someone else had posted which was suggested to them by their employer as part of OH. Phased return was offered but as my GP recommended my home environment as being better I've focussed on that.[/quote]
Ok this will be last post as feel like you are going around in circles a bit op in the nicest way possible.

It doesn't matter what they have/haven't offered you they don't want to offer you what you want which is wfh. If you really really want to keep this job then you need to speak with them now about how is best to get you back in the office, phased return + ask them about what they can put in place for additional breaks, quite area etc. Be as open with them as you can, tell them where the panic comes from and you feel xyz may make this worse/better.

Your second option is to negotiate your settlement, once you have this agreed you'll then need to seek independent advice on this before you agree to it.

If you flat out refuse to take either of these options and carry on as you are then they are likely to take you down the capability route to dismissal.

These are the only options you have left your causing yourself more anxiety by re running this over in your head.

@Allispretty

Thank you. I hear you. I appreciate your input and taking the time.

Phased return was offered but as my GP recommended my home environment as being better I've focussed on that. And if you trust the advice your GP has given you, then do yourself a favour and follow it - get a job where you can work from home - you can't squeeze a square into a circle - your job requirements have changed - move on!

Op, would you go back to work if you could go some place quiet if you have a panic attack? Do they have actually a quiet place they could vacate for you to use? It’s jot actually clear if you’d go back if they said if you habe a panic attack you can go sit in x place. It does seem you just don’t want to go in at all.

I think it’s unreasonable to ask them to provide someone to help you breathe, unless they have medical professionals on site, they would need to find someone who is willing to be trained on this and to do it with no repurcussions if not done immediately or correctly. That person will have a job to do, and also what happens when they aren’t in. Who helps you breathe at home?

Focusing solely on the gp recommendations is pointless. You’ve asked. They have said no. Keeping asking isn’t going to change that. I’m sorry.

I think you are cherry picking replies, tbh. It is totally unreasonable to expect the company to provide you with breathing support if you have a panic attack. The option to 'take 5' and use a breathing app, more reasonable.

Have you considered what triggers your panic attacks and what can be done in the workplace to avoid those triggers?

YOU WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO WORK FROM HOME AT THIS COMPANY. That's the bottom line.

After I provided my GPs recommendation they said security was the reason why I couldn't wfh and they suggested a phased return/shorter hours.

Sorry if I missed this, but if the GP note recommended a phased return, then that was your opportunity to discuss a settling in period back in the office : shortened hours, or less days, including perhaps a safe space at work if you feel panicked. Did you ever have this conversation with them?

@Candleabra

*After I provided my GPs recommendation they said security was the reason why I couldn't wfh and they suggested a phased return/shorter hours.*

Sorry if I missed this, but if the GP note recommended a phased return, then that was your opportunity to discuss a settling in period back in the office : shortened hours, or less days, including perhaps a safe space at work if you feel panicked. Did you ever have this conversation with them?

The GP recommended I wfh as better environment to manage panic attacks.

Work offered phased return after receiving my GPs recommendation, which they invited as they have no Occupational Health in place due to the size of the company.

@mummytippy if work offered you a quiet place would you return?
You are so fixated on working from home and doing things your way that you are going to lose your job!

@Candleabra

*After I provided my GPs recommendation they said security was the reason why I couldn't wfh and they suggested a phased return/shorter hours.*

Sorry if I missed this, but if the GP note recommended a phased return, then that was your opportunity to discuss a settling in period back in the office : shortened hours, or less days, including perhaps a safe space at work if you feel panicked. Did you ever have this conversation with them?

@Candleabra

It was the employer that suggested a phased return and OP that refused to consider it. I have read the full thread and the only thing OP wants is to WFH.