Voluntary Redundancy Offered - Now It is an Exit Package?! Advise Please

[mummytippy]

In short I have been off work since September suffering from anxiety and panic attacks. I opened communication with my employer regarding occupational health provision and they told me they did not have any, but would welcome my GPs recommendation. My Dr is recommending that I work from home. My employer has been telling me this isn't possible. I do accounts admin and have been told by the company's IT consultants it is possible via remote working on a laptop. I submitted a reasonable adjustment request and been turned down. The reason - logistics of transporting paperwork by other staff members- too costly, too time consuming but it can be scanned and emailed... or posted. Most of the company's suppliers and customers email their documents. Also, contamination? I will contaminate paperwork in my home? I've not heard of Covid 19 being transferable on paper?

Just before Christmas I was asked if I wanted to consider voluntary redundancy (also told strictly confidential) and was made a financial offer. I made it clear I didn't want to take such a redundancy. I want to work, but wfh. I was then told I would be informed of any decisions made. I heard nothing and after Christmas I contacted my employer to ask the latest on the redundancies, which process are they following and who does it affect. They replied they were exploring whether I would be interested in an 'exit package' in case I might not be going back to work. I feel completely mislead and spent the entire Christmas period (while they were closed) worrying about their decision and this certainly hasn't help with my panic attacks and anxiety. Any advise on this matter would be greatly appreciated. TIA.

@Allispretty

Thank you.

I had my first panic attack in May of last year, so 8 months ago and I'm on medication for them. As I was furloughed, work did not know. They didn't contact me until they wanted me to return. It was at this point everything happened with my Dad. Then my Dr signed me on sick leave with this changing to an amended fit note in Novemeber.
I contacted work and asked them what OH provision and what my options were. They said no OH as small company and said they would invite my GPs recommendation. GP rec wfh and work suggest phased return but no additional support.

What would you want them to do if you went to work and had a panic attack? What would you do if you had one whilst travelling into work? If you can no longer do your job where you were contracted to do it in the office and have no date to return to office. Your employer is within their rights to dismiss you on grounds of non capability. They have been generous in offering you a voluntary redundancy package. The voluntary package is usually far better than compulsory redundancy. You should take it whilst it is on offer. They could withdraw the offer and you may end up with a compulsory redundancy.

@Allispretty

*It sounds to me like someone who's worked hard for a business for many years and has lost motivation due to poor practices & management but that's me making assumptions like you are.

Of course there needs to be a process but the issue here is what the op was offered was never voluntary redundancy. In order for it to have been they would have discussed with any staff up for redundancy first then approached voluntary. The issue is this has been dealt with extremely poorly and vr should never have even been mentioned as they were offering a settlement. To have a "off the record" conversation with someone and then leave it for 2 weeks without bringing it up again is piss poor IMO*

You have hit the nail!
With the VR they said that I would not have to attend meetings leading up in the process which might be better for me because of my anxiety... had calculated redundancy amount on the Gov website but said they could round it up (£120) to make it a rounded figure.
Then when I heard nothing (despite them saying they'd inform me of future developments and I followed it up... asking which process etc
they were 'exploring' whether I wanted to leave and it was an exit package. They have lied to me!

You’re lying to yourself, OP, and you don’t see it. I’m out. Good luck.

[quote mummytippy]@Allispretty

Thank you.

I had my first panic attack in May of last year, so 8 months ago and I'm on medication for them. As I was furloughed, work did not know. They didn't contact me until they wanted me to return. It was at this point everything happened with my Dad. Then my Dr signed me on sick leave with this changing to an amended fit note in Novemeber.
I contacted work and asked them what OH provision and what my options were. They said no OH as small company and said they would invite my GPs recommendation. GP rec wfh and work suggest phased return but no additional support.[/quote]

When you say no additional support have you asked them what a phased return might entail? Have you had any form of welfare call/meeting where you've actually discussed why the anxiety/panic attacks are happening? I only say this as it will support you and them in how they can best facilitate you getting back to the office. A reasonable adjustment can be as simple as allowing you more breaks so if you feel a panic attack coming on your able to get out of the office for air.

Op it's an awful situation I've been a life long anxiety sufferer and it comes in waves, my employer is extremely supportive and I've reduced tasks etc in the past to support me but they have explored the option of you wfh and they have decided no. I don't think they are being unreasonable here as unfortunately it's an additional cost to them by way of time needed to scan information to you to complete your work.

I have some experience of this if you substitute panic attack for vertigo attack (dh, not me). He was off sick for 6 months and if he hadn’t improved would have had to have resigned.

Things that happened on his return to work were:

Phased return, however as you are part time that might not be appropriate)
Adjustment to hours - he was allowed to work compressed hours due to public transport times (no longer allowed to drive) that meant later starts, earlier finishes but shorter breaks and some tasks done from home)
Adjustments to his workspace - lighting, sounds etc likely to trigger attacks
Plan for if he had an attack - who would assist him and how. He told them what the best approach was.

He too wanted to work from home after lockdown but was not allowed. He had to go in full time. If he had refused he would have been dismissed.

Weird. I took VR as a Government employee when austerity hit. It was purely a headcount reduction exercise.

No consultation happened re compulsory redundancies first. And I certainly attended no meetings. No formal process is required for VR to be legal.

@Allispretty you’re not helping.

You’re missing the fairly critical piece that when the employer refers to voluntarily redundancy it’s a euphemism for settlement agreement related to a proposed termination.

@Allispretty

I'm sorry you suffer from anxiety too.

No, I've had no call from work regarding well being or to discuss how I could be supported in the workplace.
That was my initial question when opening comms with them asking about OH in the workplace and my options. After I provided my GPs recommendation they said security was the reason why I couldn't wfh and they suggested a phased return/shorter hours.
As I believe I can work my full hours but from home, I pressed on and have focussed on showing them how it can be done securely. Then I got the paper contamination and time of other staff members thrown in. I do feel they should have communicated more with me and invited potential solutions. I feel like where they have, they then have a reason not to.

I honestly don't know where to go from here... The EASS said the VR/exit package is a conduct matter as they mislead me hugely.

I feel like I've lost trust in them now and they just see me as a pain in the rear.

@TitsOot4Xmas

Weird. I took VR as a Government employee when austerity hit. It was purely a headcount reduction exercise.

No consultation happened re compulsory redundancies first. And I certainly attended no meetings. No formal process is required for VR to be legal.

But they have said since then that wasn't the case.

How can it be acceptable to say it's one thing and then it is another.

The EASS said it was a conduct matter as they mislead me and even said no need to attend meetings in view of your anxiety. Seems pretty underhand to me.

[quote PegasusReturns]@Allispretty you’re not helping.

You’re missing the fairly critical piece that when the employer refers to voluntarily redundancy it’s a euphemism for settlement agreement related to a proposed termination.[/quote]
@PegasusReturns

A euphemism?!
It was sly and underhand and delivered the day they closed for Xmas.for 10 days... left hanging and only when I ask for an update I get the truth.
Do you really think anyone deserves that?

Whilst this wouldn’t win any awards for best practice, they don’t appear to have done anything unlawful. There’s no law protecting your feelings.

Do you really think anyone deserves that?*

It’s not about what you deserve or do not deserve. On the basis of your posts your employer appears to have been acting within the parameters of the law.

They have you multiple opportunities to continue your role with them, but have failed to communicate, then argued, the refused to accept their position.

I’m flabbergasted that you didn’t understand this would be the outcome

How can it be acceptable to say it's one thing and then it is another

Why does it matter to you what they call it? They are terminating your employment because you can no longer do the role.

mummytippy the fact is that while it sucks that the timing of your anxiety has coincided with this pandemic . Most companies are struggling and you have already been away from work for almost a year now . This will probably have highlighted to the company that they can cope without you . No one is indispensable infact they have someone doing exactly your job for 3 days a week already . If they really wanted you they may have considered your WFH , they haven’t . So I think you need to accept the writing is on the wall and take everyone’s advice and get the best deal you can and start job hunting for a job which can hopefully allow you to WFH. Seriously you are just banging your head against the wall here and causing yourself more stress . Accept the facts get the best deal for you and move on and put a full stop on all this . Your mental health will probably improve naturally once this is sorted . Alternatively if you want really want or need to keep this job you will need to get back into the office in some form and remind the company how good you are because I can guarantee they will have moved on and forgotten what you have to offer. Especially with the new starter probably up to speed now

Hi OP,

I may have missed some details here, but if i was your employer i'd want a bit more in order to assist you.

As you have not been in the office since you started having panic attacks, what did you tell your GP about your anxiety in relation to how it affected you at work that made your GPsuggest you would be better off at home? Have you passed that info to your employer?

Like, if one of my team said can i WFH because i have hearing issues, i'd have to narrow down what that meant in practical terms. So instead of:
'I need to WFH because i have hearing issues and the office is noisy'
That doesnt actually tell me what the specific issue is, or how that impacts their ability to do their job whilst in the office. So i cant offer support.
I would need:
'The location of my desk in the office means i am surrounded by people on either side and right by a walkway, so im struggling to hear as part of my condition means i struggle to pick out one voice if many are talking, so im struggling to focus on what a client on the phone is saying and for that reason i think i would be better off WFH'
In which case I would suggest that we move them to a quieter part of the ofice, in a corner, and put up sound partition boards and look for a better headset, and trial all those things to see if they made an improvement. If after we trialled all that there was still an issue, we'd revisit WFH.

So what specifically is it about your working environment do you believe will trigger panic attacks? Maybe we can suggest things for you to suggest to your employer.

@TDMN

I suggest you read the thread.

As I believe I can work my full hours but from home

This is the core of the matter, OP.

You believe you can work your full hours at home.

Your employer does not believe you can. They have given reasons (cost, practicalities of organising paperwork, IT issues, the fact you have kids at home).

In this scenario, when you want/believe one thing and your employer wants/believes another thing, the employer will win.

Last comment on this thread for me too because you are just refusing to listen to anyone who isn't agreeing with you.

Employers don't need any more headaches than they already have at the moment.

Op ultimately if I was in your shoes in the nicest way possible I would get the best package you can from them and go. It sounds to me like you aren't happy there to begin with and they are never going to give you what you want in terms of agreeing to wfh.

The world is changing there are tons of roles with home working. Leave with some money and find something else. Ultimately you can sit and pick holes with the process however it's going to cause you more anxiety in the long run and not help your current situation. Wish you the best of luck

I think you could work from home OP if your employer really wanted to make it happen - but it would require expense and continual effort and they are neither willing nor are they obliged to expend either.

That might not feel fair to you given how many people are wfh at the moment - given other employers can make it happen why can't yours? But that doesn't matter - you guys are still posting payslips when the rest of the world has moved on to electronic delivery. There is too much change to be delivered in your company and change is emotionally draining, expensive and hard to implement remotely. So while there are solutions out there, of course there are, there needs to be the will to implement them and at the moment that will is not there and the easier solution for all is, for everyone (aka management), is to continue as they are. Management will not implement a change program to allow you to work from home 3 days a week because your skills are very replaceable, it doesn't matter how long you have been there - it's not a good enough reason to for example, want to change accounting software as you've asked on another thread - which frankly sounds like a bloody nightmare to even me and I thrive on change.

I think there are loads of opportunities to WFH in other companies, people are still hiring, still looking for people who can do a great job and frankly with your determination, calm approach and thick skinned nature I bet you are brilliant at credit control - I'm guessing that's a job we'll be needing at the moment - your job can be and is being done from home in other companies throughout the country, BUT you cannot change the company you work for, so you need to move on - look for a company that suits you - you are currently doing something utterly pointless - screaming at the river! Redirect your energies to a new project, get a new job! Good luck!

@TDMN

Yes I gave them details of my panic attacks and advised they would be best managed at home in view that they had said no OH provision and no options given by then with regard to being able to go sit somewhere quiet, help with breathing etc.

I was told once before by my employer (verbally) that all personal matters have to be left at the gate and not brought into the office. That comment has never left me. I feel completely unsupported.

[quote mummytippy]@TDMN

Yes I gave them details of my panic attacks and advised they would be best managed at home in view that they had said no OH provision and no options given by then with regard to being able to go sit somewhere quiet, help with breathing etc.

I was told once before by my employer (verbally) that all personal matters have to be left at the gate and not brought into the office. That comment has never left me. I feel completely unsupported.[/quote]
You are going round in circles - repeating yourself over and over again - you need to stop! This is not a company you even want to work for - find a new job! Start fresh, your employer has not behaved in a very nice way but you are playing reruns in your head in a continual loop - you need to stop. And move on, go somewhere else.

@JustWatchMe

Thanks for your comment, Yes, still posting payslips. They were still posting remittance advices when I was put on furlough. More often than not the money would arrive in the suppliers account before they received their remittance. I was trying to move those onto being emailed.

You are right. One of the IT companies I contacted to find out what tech would be required has worked for them before and they said 'they have to get with the times one day' without any prompting from me!

I just wanted to clarify this point...

it's not a good enough reason to for example, want to change accounting software as you've asked on another thread - which frankly sounds like a bloody nightmare to even me and I thrive on change

I'm not wanting to change it as I know it doesn't need to be changed... it's cloud based Sage and operates with a server to back it up. I was just interested to know what other people are using