Civil Service Progression SEO to G7

[Halfeti]

Hello, I am starting a new role in the Civil Service soon and looking for thoughts about progressing and promotion. It's a complete career change for me, having spent many years as a middle leader and teacher in a large school. I will be entering at SEO grade in a policy role. I am keen to learn new skills, network, focus on my development and learn CS procedures. I took a pay cut to enter the CS which I am happy to do but I would like to secure a promotion in the future. Am I correct in thinking SEO to G7 is a big hurdle? Does anyone have experience of how long it took to progress from SEO to G7? Any tips and advice for progressing in the CS?
Thanks

To me seo is lead on an area of work. G7 is leading an operational team. It's a reasonably large jump, but then aren't they all?

Good luck in the new role!

Some folks take years to progress others manage it in a matter of months. Talk to your line manager and get writing those applications.

Policy g7 isn't really the leader of an operational team but you take on your own area of policy and expected to take the lead and work off your own back.

There's also a big financial jump...depending on the department its around 15k.

Took me about 3 years from seo to g7. I know people who gave taken 20 years and others who have don't it in a year.

It is where I am!

Is your role in London or the regions as progression opportunities are very different.

I am based outside of London.

I was an SEO for three years before being my G7. I did a years placement on TDA first to get good experience whilst having a safety net of being able to go back to my substantive part if I hated it. When I got the permanent promotion it was a huge step up - I work in operational delivery and manage a team of 30 people, have to take responsibility for recruitment, join working groups with policy leads and deputise for senior management in situations that often mean I feel insecure. I started at HEO so have been around in the CS for quite a while.

That does make a difference as in my experience there are more promotion opportunities in London. However, this varies from department to department.

Once you have started your job you will be able to register on the CS Jobs portal so you get regular updates on vacancies. Use this to get an idea of the requirements for the next grade and to start building examples for future applications.

Hi all, I am applying for civil service jobs but I am struggling to write my personal statement. I have googled but I could not find any good example. Has someone got one that could be shared please? Many thanks

I was an SEO for less than 18 months before I took G7. I think it depends on your skills and department. Also how quickly you pick up CS protocol. External people at SEO either progress very quickly as they've had to come in lower but really should've been higher and that's recognised, or they stagnate immediately as they don't understand the ways of working. It also depends how good your LM is (and the strength of the relationship you build with them).

@Halfeti how’s it going now? I saw this thread as I’m in the same boat. I am taking a big salary hit to get into the CS. The role is fascinating but in two years id like to be back up to where I am now (about a g7 pay scale). Have you enjoyed it?

Hi I am really enjoying the role but thinking a different department/role would suit my skill set and experience better. I have an interview next week for a different department at the same grade but I think it will offer more opportunities to progress. At SEO grade I was hoping to line manage but that’s not available in my role currently. I am hoping to be up to G7 in two years time but we’ll see. Have you started your role yet? How did you find the application process?

I joined the civil service at SEO level at the end of Oct 21 and have an interview next week for Grade 7.

In my specialism it is a very large jump, in terms of both application process and salary (I will be looking at a 50% increase) but once at that grade I believe the opportunities will be even greater.

Push yourself and see where you get to...good luck!

@Halfeti @Notmulan please can I ask you how you found the application process and how long it took?

I'm looking to make a move into the CS as well and likewise will be taking a big pay cut. The applications are intense though and not enjoying it so far!

@twiggytwoo I probably spent three evenings on my application. I think I then waited about a fortnight before being offered an interview. The interview required a presentation. I had 5 days to prepare it. I heard I was successful about 6 or 7 working days after the interview but they set that expectation with me at the interview

The role sounds brilliant and interesting but is a significant pay drop. I would like to think I could progress but I’m not sure if that’s a possibility

I have some highly intelligent and hard working acquaintances who joined on the fast track scheme and haven’t left. They must enjoy it

Ps I’m very hard working and I’m hoping the cs offers me the balance between fulfilling work and being able to work hard within hours to achieve what’s needed and be able to be a more “present” mother too. I don’t really like that word but I certainly find that where I’m at now work doesn’t stop, im emailed in evenings , Saturdays and then from 6pm Sunday need to start preparing for the week ahead and I think it’s making me more ratty and lacking energy to spend time with my children without distractions.

Make sure your draw firm boundaries around your work life balance, many CS roles can become all consuming. I won’t log in at weekends for instance but plenty of people do, plenty of people will email of an evening too, although it’s not expected that you respond. People often think they will progress faster in civil service if they work like that, but all it gets you is worn out! Also I think some people see the seniors working long hours and assume they will progress if they do that, but the jobs are different and a junior member of staff should never need to work excess hours except by exception.

When looking at your move to G7 it’s important to recognise the difference between the grades, it becomes more about delivering through others or owning/leading really big pieces of work so make sure you’re grabbing the development opportunities in SEO role.

@Notmulan thanks for the reply - we have similar reasons for moving. I've just come back to work after having a second baby and I find the job I was doing before (plus all the extra hours etc) is much less doable with two small children. One was just about manageable!

I’d be quite wary of assuming good work life balance if you’re chasing promotion. I had one day this week where I worked a 17h day. Different departments and roles vary so much. If you’re lucky you’ll get a good role that gives you good balance, flexi time etc and I think the civil service is much more open than many other employers to flexible arrangements. However, the problem can be that the most exciting, high profile jobs come with high expectations and that can mean long hours and high stress. Those sorts of roles can be quite addictive to. I’m more senior but I’ve found it very hard to manage work expectations and my children and am thinking v carefully about looking at a job share to give a bit more balance .

I've recently heard G7 referred to as the Goldilocks grade, the sweet spot for pay, responsibility and good work life balance before the balance starts to tip more towards work. I'm still very new to G7 and appreciate it differs so much across organisations, but it seems a fair observation from what I've seen in the organisations I've been in at least.

And sorry to answer your question more directly, I went from SEO to G7 in 18 months (not including PEC ) I'm in quite a technical field on the operational delivery side. Certainly wasn't a hurdle to get to G7, once I made the decision to progress I applied for a few and got multiple interviews and job offers. Too early days to say what the jump has been like as I only started recently, I'm not overly anxious though, I had quite a lot of responsibility at SEO grade more than I think is usual.

In every department the top is the Permanent Secretary. This is the head civil servant in a department and will have his/her own private office like Ministers do.

Then there will be a few Director Generals. These will head up 'groups' of different directorates and have responsibility for the general strategy of a vast policy area.

Each directorate is headed by a Director. This job brings a lot of responsibility and a lot of pressure as you are highly accountable, Directors work long hours and have pressure from Ministers. Once you are at this level you are probably sacrificing salary to stay in the civil service as like for like jobs in the private sector would pay more. A director would probably earn £80-90k but this would be a similar level job to being a partner in a large firm in the private sector, many of whom would earn much more in their total compensation package.

Then within each directorate there are deputy directorates headed by Deputy Directors. This is often called Grade 5 and marks the start of the Senior Civil Service. If you get to Grade 5 you have done well and had a very successful career, and will make important decisions. A Grade 5 will earn about £65-75k a year.

To get above 5 you need to be really special and have a lot of extensive and diverse experience.

Below the Senior Civil Service are Grade 6 and Grade 7. Grade 6 is about £50-60k a year and Grade 7 is about £45-50k a year. This is where most of the graduates on the Fast Stream will end up spending their careers.

After this you go from numbers to letters. The order will be
SEO (Senior executive officer)
HEO (Higher executive officer) - around £25-32k. If you enter in the Fast Stream you come in here.

The vast majority of civil servants are in these grades:
EO (Executive officer) - around £24-26k
AO (Administrative officer) - around £18-22k
AA (Administrative assistant) - around £15-17k

Fast Streamers are supposed to accelerate from HEO to Grade 7 quickly (3/4 years), whereas the climb to Grade 7 outside the fast stream is a long and weary one.