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Original poster

Furloughed still working

99 replies

seavieww · 21/04/2020 21:04

My boss who owns a medium sized business has furloughed his most his staff as some of our offices have closed - about 75 percent

The office girls ( and one guy) there's 6 of us have been furloughed as from today but are all still managing to work ( from home)

He said he can claim all our wages (80%) so that's around £9k per month on our wages BUT we are all still working as usual

As much as I don't really care per say
He can do what he wants, I was telling my boyfriend today his plans etc and he said he really shouldn't be doing that?

Thing is when you are furloughed you give your details ie national insurance number to hmrc so surely they would be checking to make sure people are claiming it correctly?

Just wanted some thoughts on this

OP posts:

travailtotravel · 21/04/2020 21:07

Yep. Can't do that. Furlough is for when you can't work. If he's trying to play the system, you can whistleblow him to HMRC.

tishwuw · 21/04/2020 21:08

He shouldn't be doing that.

seltaeb · 21/04/2020 21:11

You could be in difficulty later when HMRC start checking, for knowingly participating in fraudulent activity.

PlusMinus · 21/04/2020 21:11

Illegal and immoral.

Nillynally · 21/04/2020 21:12

Really illegal!

GreyGardens88 · 21/04/2020 21:16

FGS he has a duty of care over you his employees, illegal, immoral and you need to report him

itchyfinger · 21/04/2020 21:19

Yes my company is doing the same. Its dodgy.

However, I do think it must be tough for some business owners to basically lose key staff with specific skillsets in order to pay them, especially SMEs where those people are really needed to keep businesses going. Foe example, you may need warehouse staff to dispatch orders but cant afford to pay them so have to furlough them, meaning the business cant run....

RedDiamond · 21/04/2020 21:24

@seavieww - Has he given you a document to sign to say that you will be doing no work whilst furloughed?

All employees have to have a letter and an amended contract of employment in order for this to be legal. These documents have to be signed by the employee to say they agree to the terms of being furloughed.

If you have had a letter and signed it and you are continuing to work, you will be had up for fraud once HMRC do their investigations at a later stage.

AvoidingRealHumans · 21/04/2020 21:27

That is illegal and not what the furlough package is for. Some employers are being crafty and trying to get around it by saying the employees are volunteering for the company whilst off.
As for signing and agreeing to furlough, we were emailed with a letter saying we were to be furloughed and to opt out if we didn't agree.

Original poster

seavieww · 21/04/2020 21:29

@RedDiamond god no I will NOT be signing that. If and when that form gets presented then I will say I'm not happy to do that!

I only heard coz we are a close knit office and the person who does payroll is a friend - although they are friends as all we all get on well but he said he needed my NI so that's when I figured he's furloughing ( as there's a big list of others that were furloughed today too)

Didn't think too much of it until I told mr Boyf and like most responses on here have said the same thing.

I suppose because he hasn't told me direct irs hear say I guess ? But as I say we are a close team and my friend wouldn't lie, he is definitely furloughing us

So do I say something now ?

Don't want to be part of anything like that and yes I agree it is very wrong

OP posts:

Original poster

seavieww · 21/04/2020 21:34

@AvoidingRealHumans so this letter does it come from your work or hmrc?

So if I opt out that means I don't get furloughed ? And also if he says I have to be furloughed then I would be ok with that!

It's better than not getting any salary

I would rather work as I am but not with him saying to hmrc I'm being furloughed

It's making me a bit angry now
Would I go as far as reporting though? Probably not, not sure what to do now

OP posts:

atenthofaclue · 21/04/2020 21:35

How have they been doing the payroll without your NI number?

If you're furloughed that's a change to your employment contract. You have to agree to it.

The prison sentences for money laundering offences are quite lengthy. Cash received due to fraud = proceeds of crime.

AvoidingRealHumans · 21/04/2020 21:40

The letter came from my employer.
If you are furloughed your employer is claiming that there is no work for you to do at the moment due to coronavirus. The scheme is to ensure that they keep us on as employees so that we have a job to go back to when this is over rather than make us redundant as theres no work atm.

Your employer would be massively breaking the law to furlough you and claim the 80% salary from the government whilst still getting you to work.

I would send them (employer) an email and say you've looked into the furlough scheme and that you were confused as you aren't meant to be working whilst furloughed and ask them to clear it up for you. That way you have evidence.

Oct18mummy · 21/04/2020 21:41

You should not be working.

HMRC will be doing audits after this to claw back any money they shouldn’t have paid out. It’s simple to pull data from computer networks to see who has been logging on and sending emails etc. Will be difficult to explain that no work was being done if this data is available.

The company will then need to pay all money back and no doubt fined.

We are cutting email access off for anyone furloughed for this very reason.

Original poster

seavieww · 21/04/2020 21:43

@atenthofaclue sorry I mean the guy who does payroll not my boss - he doesn't deal with the pay. He was filling out a spreadsheet and just asked me for it
We were chatting on the phone and he just said whilst I've got you

And yes I agree - it's had hence why I'm not happy about it but I haven't agreed and won't agree

But he hasn't said directly to me

He doesn't need to furlough us staff so not sure why he thinks this is a good idea !!!

OP posts:

QforCucumber · 21/04/2020 21:44

You have to agree to he furloughed and to take the wage reduction. You also have to agree in that to do no work for the business and to be furloughed for a min of 3 weeks.

atenthofaclue · 21/04/2020 21:45

You've not been furloughed so how do you even know it's an idea he has, let alone that he thinks it's a good idea! You're making massive leaps based on rumours and assumptions.

Original poster

seavieww · 21/04/2020 21:45

@AvoidingRealHumans great idea re the email I shall do that

But to be honest I suspect he's doing that and not telling the office staff
He only said to the guy as he's his payroll

So frigging dodgy - so he basically is trying to make from it ?!

OP posts:

Bluejuicyapple · 21/04/2020 21:47

You cannot work for your company if furloughed, end of

Original poster

seavieww · 21/04/2020 21:48

@atenthofaclue no I am not all thank you
my best friend who works on the payroll has told me the boss said to furlough me, him, (payroll) and the other 4 sales girls ! He said he was asked to collect everyone's nI numbers as he has to get it in today ! None of the other sales girls know only me and payroll Pete let's call him

OP posts:

DonnaDarko · 21/04/2020 21:49

I've been furloughed and I had to sign a letter agreeing to it

The terms are clear, if you are being furloughed, you cannot do any work for the company or anything that will benefit the company

www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

AvoidingRealHumans · 21/04/2020 21:49

Yes it would seem that your boss is trying to continue the business and use the government to pay his staff.
Theres no way he would get away with this so lets hope he sees the light and either furloughs you properly or keeps you on as normal.

Original poster

seavieww · 21/04/2020 21:52

Please read the whole post if you're going to comment .....I've asked for advice on this and it's tiring explaining little points here and there when it's already in the post

I know I can't work AND be furloughed.

Admittedly I don't know enough about furlough process but I do know that...

Hence my post

So when I get an email or letter or change of contact I won't be signing ! I've only found out today at 5 when I was finishing
His plan is to furlough us all in the office
Along with the onsite staff who cannot work from home like us

But agreed I know it's illegal, wrong and I don't want to be part of it

It's where I go from here

OP posts:

Original poster

seavieww · 21/04/2020 21:55

@AvoidingRealHumans yeah appears so

Unless I've just thought maybe we ARE actually being furloughed for real and we are stopping work but to be fair we CAN work from home so I doubt it's that

He obviously has no clue because there's no way in this world I'm agreeing and still working! One or the other for sure

Thanks everyone a little bit more clear now and very disappointed in my boss if he's trying to do that

Least if I get a letter or email etc I will be ready to questions

OP posts:

zebrapig · 21/04/2020 21:57

It's your company that would send you the furlough letter, not HMRC. Employers have to fill out the government portal with the details of the employees they are furloughing. You have to sign and return the letter to your employer to say you agree to being furloughed. It definitely sounds like he is trying to do something dodgy as you cannot work if you have been placed on furlough.

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