Furloughed still working

[seavieww]

My boss who owns a medium sized business has furloughed his most his staff as some of our offices have closed - about 75 percent

The office girls ( and one guy) there's 6 of us have been furloughed as from today but are all still managing to work ( from home)

He said he can claim all our wages (80%) so that's around £9k per month on our wages BUT we are all still working as usual

As much as I don't really care per say
He can do what he wants, I was telling my boyfriend today his plans etc and he said he really shouldn't be doing that?

Thing is when you are furloughed you give your details ie national insurance number to hmrc so surely they would be checking to make sure people are claiming it correctly?

Just wanted some thoughts on this

How is the company worse off though? If you can work and money is still coming in then fine. If you can't as no demand then use the scheme and employees have to accept 80% or risk losing jobs. This way the employee gets 80% (assuming no top up) and the employer is still revenue generating and making more money.

I've just looked and think it's an online form for reporting and yes I would personally. As @soontobe60 says you are also acting fraudulently. BTW the revised guidance and now legislation says the furlough agreement must be in writing otherwise no claim can be made so you WILL be asked to sign something and this should state you are not undertaking any services or generating revenue for your employer.

If you're threatened with being sacked, tell your employer that your employer more than happy to phone HMRC

In the real world this means I have no job!

www.charlesrussellspeechlys.com/en/news-and-insights/insights/employment-pensions-and-immigration/2020/coronavirus-job-retention-scheme-updated-government-and-hmrc-guidance/

No, it means that in the real world your employer will be shitting themselves and do their best to keep you sweet. No one wants HMRc on their backs.

If you're threatened with being sacked, tell your employer that your employer more than happy to phone HMRC

This, and then when you can, start looking for new employment. I'd struggle to work for an employer who treated people and made fraudulent claims.

Also, if you know it's going on and don't do anything could this be classed as fraud?

I have a real strong dislike for companies that do this sort of thing. The current economy can't keep up with this, the government will have to claw it back from somewhere and it'll be the taxpayers who will ultimately pay the price for years to come with higher taxes etc

Could those of you that need to go old fashioned and write/print a paper letter with the details you are happy to include and post it to HMRC? I'm sure there will be a postal address somewhere on their website. You could include details that would be generally and/or publicly available so as not to pinpoint you individually. Then look for another job, it sounds like some of you have wankers for bosses.

Ok so I have found out that he IS furloughing....no mention from him to me directly and no letter or email as yet

@badboss2020 It's a difficult predicament that you are in but please be aware that if your company is caught, and it can be proven that despite being made aware of the decision to furlough you as an employee, you continued to work, you will be taken to court personally along with your employer for fraud.

@seavieww does that mean you are supposed to stop working now? As far as I know you have to have had the official letter and accept it in order for him to claim

@newbie111 I know, I'm really uncomfortable with it. I need to get this pay check in the bag and then I'll have to see.

I'm absolutely NOT happy to be working for someone like this and do intend to find other work but I'm sure you are all aware there is no chance of that at the moment

I haven't received a letter or email
Just payroll have told me all the office staff are on the furloughed list
Which in fairness they only told me as we are best mates

I think unless you have a letter and have agreed then that's a different matter no ? As we've said I'm sure lots of companies are doing it
Ive only found out coz I have a friend in payroll!
Have you had a letter @Badboss2020 and have you agreed?

Your boss is disgusting they haven’t given you a letter because it sounds like he doesn’t want you to know he’s done it.
That way he can make the claim without telling you and get you to continue working and I assume generating revenue for his business
Bastard

@Figgygal yes you got it on one! That's exactly what he is doing
It's so bad and I honestly don't know what to do
Like pp I need my job! Salary or furloughed I don't care just need my income !
So me and my friend have now fallen out
He said he's ' doing what he is told ' not his business and that I shouldn't even know and if I go to my boss it will look like he's told me info he shouldn't have done
He said he shouldn't have asked me for my ni as that is what made me ask
He said he wishes he just looked on the system
He tells me he did the application yesterday and we are all on it
He's being a dick too as he can't understand - he's payroll knows about it

No stressed

@seavieww this is the thing! We all need our wages. I don't really care if that's working or or furloughed either.

I feel for you both, you're in really difficult positions. Many of us are worried about our job security and income already without this weighing over you both and potentially doing yourselves out of a job by doing the right thing.

I think a lot of companies are just doing what they have to in order to keep their business going
Very very wrong,but understandable?

I hope these bosses get caught. We are at a time of crisis and should be pulling together, not taking the piss.

I really hope that these bosses flouting the rules are caught and harshly punished through the courts.

While my instinct is to always report something like this, I can fully understand why you OP and the other poster in the same boat are in an awful position and feel unable to.

Well he's definitely furloughed everyone ...
No mention to me so just going to carry on
He's said to payroll that if he doesn't, the company could potentially go under and he's doing it to save our jobs ...which is a risk anyway

As I've not heard anything I'm just going to crack on with my role

Yes I agree it's awful and I don't like it at all

@seavieww that's the exact line my boss used.
Whilst I don't disagree with that ITS THE LAW and the £70k salary he takes from the company is the biggest drain!
I don't care if the company goes under at this point.

It's bad isn't it

I doubt my boss company will go under he's just greedy but I'm a believer in what goes around comes around !

I don't think you're in the clear though. If you're asked by HMRC if you've been furloughed you can't claim you didn't know.

You should still report.

You shouldn't be working if you are furloughed (obviously)
If HMRC find out,and all I am hearing at work is how stringent their checks will be for years to come ) you could be charged with conspiracy to defraud
Some people will get into a lot of trouble,make sure you are not one of them

well you know you cant work if you are furloughed, i have no idea how to check if you have? you might be able to check with HMRC?

but your friend is in the wrong fucking job if they cant keep things confidential

If you get furloughed, won't it show on your payslip, because you'll only get paid 80%? So then you could ask the questions about never having had official notification or agreement and ask both your employer and HMRC.

Unless he's intending to pay you 100% as normal while you work as normal, but he claims 80% back. If he does that, but you don't see it because it's not on the payslips and you've had no letter, then it's harder to complain, because you're basically acting on rumour. However, your payroll pal should definitely contact HMRC, as they are in a position to know. "Just doing what I am told," is no excuse, if you know it means the law is being broken like this. He is also breaking the law if he knows and doesn't speak up.