Harassment

[mamasin]

A senior colleague humiliated me publicly almost two months ago. I reported this and while he denied making a comment, he "apologised" in the must insulting way possible. I have sought to have the matter dealt with formally and met with HR who tried to convince me because he said it on a work night out it didn't count(it was a work do.) I have been isolated by my line managers and HR have told me that nothing will happen at least until next month.
Advice please

Agree with morningpaper's comment. Without background information, I hate to say it, to me it sounds as though you have over-reascted slightly if it was a one off comment. Is there any more to it?

(I'm not being funny, just wondering)

God, I'm beginning to feel as if this whole thing has snowballed!
I think the backlash to me at work for making this complaint has only proved to me that something fishy is going on... Honestly, I wish I had just sat there and taken it but I've experienced such awful cr*p since, and such protectiveness of my colleague... He's actually accused me of saying something which warranted his remark...
Now that I've joined a new team at work I feel awful about dragging this mess with me.
Should I advise my new boss of what's happening or is that HRs job?
Please your help would be appreciated. I know that on paper it looks like his remark was no big deal but he said it so loudly for everyone on the team to hear...

Whether other people consider it a big deal or not is irrelevant, it's a completely inappropriate remark to make, and whether it is bullying or harassment is very much down to how it made you feel, in the context it was in.
You do need to advise your new manager of what's going on definitely, HR won't necessarily do that. You can advise/request him to have a chat with HR as well to chase up what's happening with it so it can be resolved and you can move on.

Thanks flowery, I was beginning to wonder if I am making a big deal out of this. I like my new boss and I'm afraid what he'll think of me. Just had transfer meeting this morning from old bosses to new and the oldies were quite frosty. I'm hoping that they won't 'poison' my new boss.
Sorry for sounding so wet and drippy about this! Your help and support on this has been fantastic, I really appreciate your advice

No problem at all, and if you are worried about what your old boss will say, more important that you raise it in a calm and mature manner with your new boss. Also he is likely to find out from someone anyway, so it's better from you, and he should help you get it resolved as well.

FWIW, mamasin, I don't think you're overreacting. It was a totally inappropriate way for him to behave and that kind of thing really shouldn't be tolerated by anyone.

thanks chipmonkey I was beginning to wonder! I will let you know how I get on but I am looking for another job to be on the safe side.
Lovely to know that I'm not on the verge of losing my sanity...
I'll keep you posted!

Am meeting with one of my new bosses either this week or next.
I will tell him but I suspect he knows. I wonder what the response will be. My previous direct line boss (who was the same in terms of seniority as this new one)told me he couldn't discuss it with me at all once complaint became formal.
So should I not tell this boss, but the boss' boss? (Damn it's hard trying to conceal names etc!)
So who do I tell? What will I say?
C'mon give us your tuppenceworth!

HI mamasin
Do mention it to your new boss.
He will probably know, and he should.
Say something like
'I am not sure whether you are aware, so I thought I should just mention, I have raised a formal complaint about X because of a remark he made to me which I consider to be sexual harassment/bullying. I thought you ought to be aware of the situation, I am still awaiting the matter being dealt with and I would appreciate you chasing it with HR if you are able to help me with this.'

Ta da!

I have nothing to do with HR (and no knowledge of rules/regulations), but I would only take flowery's advice to a point and here it is:

'I am not sure whether you are aware, so I thought I should just mention, I have raised a formal complaint about X because of a remark he made to me which I consider to be sexual harassment/bullying. I thought you ought to be aware of the situation.'

I then might add something about looking forward to a fresh start and to making a contribution to the new team.

This is your dilemma with the old boss/old team. I would not drag it into the new situation, and certainly would not ask my new boss to chase it up with HR. Consider the move a welcome change and a fresh start. Leave past grievances with the old team. That's what I'd do anyway....

Agree with the fresh start bit, that's good.
I do think that part of being someone's manager is ensuring that problems they are encountering at work are being dealt with by whoever is supposed to be dealing with them though. So I do think if mamasin is struggling to get a response from HR, asking her boss to raise it is fair enough, whether he was involved initially or not. And I think a member of a manager's team who is feeling sexually harassed and bullied is the manager's dilemma as well as the individual's dilemma, it is not in the interests of the performance of the team to have an unresolved situation like this.

But I agree that emphasising that you want to make a fresh start and contribute in your new team is a good idea.

Will you be encountering the 'bully' regularly in your new area, or will it be (relatively) easy to avoid him/not interact? Obviously, will be more difficult if you are expected to interact with him.

Have you visited HR in person recently, and if so, what do they say?

Based on skimming the thread, it sounds as if this has disintegrated into an impossible-to-prove-either-way case of 'he said, she said', and maybe HR are simply hoping the problem will 'go away'. Did anyone else hear the man make the comment, and would they be willing to support your claim?

Hey,flowery and early yep I feel as time goes on the harder it will be to prove...
one person who certainly heard the remark is directly under him and I haven't asked her but she did gasp at his remark... I think HR are trying to drag this out so that it will be well nigh impossible to prove.
Contact with them up to now has been them writing to me (while on annual leave and even at the wrong address!) and me emailing them frequently.
Ought I ask for a face to face meeting? they say they are trying to line up terms of reference for an investigator. I also asked that a male and female be appointed to look into this as they had suggested a male with no training in harassment/sexual harassment.
I really feel like having a go at them!

No, I won't have to meet him regularly but occassionally at staff events etc. I thank you both for your patience and consideration. Honestly, my tummy is churning all the time about this!

Hi mamasin
I would say you do need to speak to someone. I have to say HR are being astonishingly incompetent not at least having a chat with someone who is feeling bullied and sexually harassed to see how you are feeling and discuss how to address the problem, formal action or no formal action.
See if you can meet with someone and get to the bottom of it I'd say. Go in calm but emphasise that it is a serious complaint you are making, it is not good for your work or the work of your team that such a serious allegation is going un-addressed, you are with a new manager now and are hoping to move forward positively but you don't feel you can do this when the only 'support' and action you have received so far is a few letters and emails, and no actual action dealing with it.

I should say that they met with me once two months ago, when I was interviewed about what happened. HR person said did I not think "in the context of a night out with drink taken and with banter going on" that his remark should be viewed in this light?

My last contact with her was a week ago in an email in which I said I didn't think the above comment was appropriate. I asked that the terms of reference be amended (my name was misspelled throughout!)that a male and female be considered to interview, that time limits be set, a right to appeal the decision etc. She has not even acknowledged my email. Jaysus, I don't want to take on the whole company but they are taking the p**s!

bumping for flowery!

ooh hello sorry

HR person saying it shouldn't be taken in that light is irrelevant, harassment and bullying is all about how it made the person in question feel, not whether someone else thinks it was reasonable or not.

DO ask to meet with either the same HR person or a more senior one if there is one. You are right it is getting ridiculous, and I think a discussion along the lines I mentioned is called for, saying you want to move on and don't want a huge palaver but you think you are entitled to have the matter properly looked into, your communications acknowledged, and some action taken for everyone's benefit, it can't be good for anyone to have this hanging around.
And also in the meantime this person may be saying similar things to other employees, so it's in HR's interest to sort it and draw a line under it asap to avoid having to deal with other similar situations. It may only result in a slapped wrist for the person, I don't know, but whatever happens, it needs to be done.

My blood is up!I'll ring them now. I'll let ye know how things go. Thanks so much

Any news?

Hi earlybird, told boss yesterday but i believe he knew already. I said I was disappointed with delays, and he said well, you know what with summer and all! He asked what stage is it at, and when I told him,he was very quick to respond with terms of reference needing time etc.
Am off to the doctor this morning as feel so down about everything.
HR have not acknowledged my email of 10 days ago or returned my message from Wednesday.
Where do I go from here?

Mamasin glad you spoke to your boss about it, and I'm sure you're right he would have been informed previously.
Are your HR dept in the same building as you, or accessible to physically go down there and ask for a quick word?

The good news is that your new boss sounds understanding and supportive.

Agree with flowery that perhaps you should visit HR in person so that they can't continue to ignore/avoid.

Given what transpired with the senior colleague, what outcome to this situation would satisfy you?

It sounds to me like you've upset yourself far too much over a drunken remark made by a twat.

Can you not just say to HR, I want it noted on the other person's record that a complaint was made about him, but for the good of your personal mental health you are not going to pursue it?

If you have nothing to do with the man in your work any more and your new boss is as understanding as he sounds, why not wipe the slate clean and let it go?

Hi,doctor signed me off for a month for anxiety last week.
Got letter from HR yesterday dated 7 August but posted by them on 7 September(!) advising of service available to help people!
maybe I have lost the plot as I think that they fiddled the date on the letter to make it look like they were helping.
Incidentally, HR Department is 3 hours away by train. I think they only sent the letter in a panic when I rang in to say I was off sick for a month...
any ideas?