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Original poster

Angry and sad that junior colleagues have been promoted over me.

101 replies

samsamsamsamsamsam · 16/05/2019 21:14

I have just received an email to say that 2 of our team (of 5 who do the same job) have been made 'Senior'.

Both of them have been in the 'non senior' role for less than a year. And neither of them were Product Owners before.

At an appraisal earlier on this year, my boss gave me a raise and said that I had been doing very well and he was really happy with the way things were going, my team were churning out lots of good work (we work in development) - more so than any of the other 4 development teams.

At this appraisal, I obviously thanked him for the money and we chatted about what I wanted from the future - I said I wanted to be made senior (which is a logical step) and he agreed that if I nailed my objectives for q1 I would be made senior. Which I did.

Since then, everything has been going well, I thought. Boss continued to give great feedback in 121's etc.

And now this email.

One of the guys made senior is a good Product Owner, solid, and has delivered a great project in his first 6m in the job. But that is it. One project, in total. 6 months total working as a product owner (he was in a client facing role before) and now he's more senior than me.

The other guy, who has less experience, was a former developer who handed his notice in, and was offered this role as a carrot to stay. He has also delivered one good project. However, his second project was very delayed because he over-featured it and it was full of bugs. This was a small feature that was critical to our platform. So it shouldnt have been delayed, and it caused my team to have to step in and fix what was broken with his code. So this is the one that hurts to me. And I hate that it hurts me. But it feels like I am being demoted, rather than them being promoted if you see what I mean.

I have this feeling it's about availability. I have a child, so I can't travel to the other side of the world at a week notice to meet clients as they can. This scenario happened 2 weeks ago, and I had to say no, and so he got sent to Australia to meet some clients.

What can I do? I feel embarrassed about it. I hate that I feel emotional like this over a promotion.

OP posts:

daisychain01 · 19/06/2019 06:22

There should be no difference to how public and private sector operate.

Public sector try to be more open to public scrutiny and audit, they operate to the letter of the law (tax payers' money and all that), and often have the Unions breathing down their neck to boot!

That said, it's equally possible for someone in the private sector to call their employer to account, the fact is people don't have sufficient knowledge of how the law plays out and probably don't want to rock the boat and make themselves unpopular.

OP, It would be worth you contacting ACAS and giving them the details to get their opinion. I bet you they'll say you have a strong case. The key thing is you need to evidence you've tried your best to resolve the matter directly with your employer and given them the chance to right the wrong.

Sandybval · 19/06/2019 06:30

If you aren't able to be as available which is a fundamental part of the job by the sounds of it, do you think you should get the same even though you aren't doing the same role essentially?

daisychain01 · 19/06/2019 06:42

If you aren't able to be as available which is a fundamental part of the job by the sounds of it, do you think you should get the same even though you aren't doing the same role essentially?

How do you know the OPs and the male colleagues' contracts say anything about being "available" and on call to drop everything at the behest of their boss? It is discriminatory to make the conditions of employment so heavily skewed against female workers that only male workers ever stand a chance of promotion and advancement.

As the OP stated it's all about jobs for the boys, football banter and being available to fly long haul at the drop of a hat. The employer has arbitrarily decided to shift the goalposts and the OP should not suffer for that, especially when given platitudes about their prospects of promotion (that she has worked for, and earned) which have now shifted to Sept.

Thesuzle · 19/06/2019 06:52

Please please come back on here later in the year and tell us what went down, others need to learn from this experience and your story will help us all

bebeboeuf · 19/06/2019 07:10

Fingers crossed for you op

As another female in male dominated environment I experience this regularly and am also at the point of having raised it with management.

It’s annoyed me that I’ve had to even bring it up considering I am longest member of staff and the one with with most proven track record

TeaKettleBell · 20/06/2019 06:34

I read your post and thought in this day and age we should be able to handle communication virtually without having to drop everything and fly to Oz.
Could you do a cost benefit analysis listing out how much your company would save if you gathered requirements/spoke to clients via Skype/video conference?
If you can kill the travel need you will make life easier for you and others in your position.

isthisfairidontknow · 05/07/2019 13:55

Update: I applied for and got a new job. With a decent wage increase. I'm really chuffed. Just got to get the contract though and then I'm going to hand my notice in.

My exit interview is going to be fun :-)

The exit interview isn't conducted by my manager it is by the HR dept so I will explain why I decided to start looking for roles.

cstaff · 05/07/2019 14:24

Well done OP. I am delighted for you. Make it perfectly clear to them why you are leaving - whilst it wont help you it may make them change their ways in the future for some other person in your position.

runningpram · 08/07/2019 20:42

please update us how handing in your notice goes!

Standstilling · 08/07/2019 20:47

Good on you. It fucking stinks when this happens and I know cos it happened to me. But I got a better job - more money, better hours, more potential so I hope you’re as proud of yourself as I am.

Outlookmainlyfair · 08/07/2019 20:48

Glad to hear a good news thread! (Well, good for you in the end by sadly predictable that you faced discrimination)

CheddarGorgeous · 08/07/2019 20:49

Really well done OP, so proud of you!

Nowisthemonthofmaying · 09/07/2019 13:16

Ah fantastic news, well done! Do come back and let us know how the exit interview goes...

isthisfairidontknow · 10/07/2019 11:40

Thanks all. I think it was this thread that helped me realise that I had been treated unfairly.

Exit interview hasn't happened and is with Hr (female) so I think I will feel better expressing my issues to them.

My manager didn't take it well at all. He was shocked and I could hear him tapping angrily on the phone on the other end of the line. His first response was something along the lines of 'well there's no point you getting involved with the start of the X project as you won't be here, I'll have to give it to (one of the promoted guys)'

After the call he softened a bit and sent me a message to say thanks for all my hard work. But crucially he didn't offer me a sweetener to stay. So I guess I was right to move on.

And as someone just said it's more exciting projects, a decent wage increase and a new start! So thanks for all your help.

Nowisthemonthofmaying · 10/07/2019 12:49

Ha that reaction from your manager really shows his true colours! Sounds like you never would have got a fair deal from him - hopefully your next job will be much better!

HavelockVetinari · 10/07/2019 13:49

Bloody well done OP, and make sure you update us on your exit interview, I bet it'll be a corker!

IDontGiveABagOfDicks · 10/07/2019 14:17

Nice one OP I’ve just stumbled across this thread, good for you. Stick. It. To. The. Man.

catontherun · 10/09/2019 16:58

@isthisfairidontknow

How are things ? Did you get a chance to enlighten HR by means of an exit interview ?

XavierKingston · 23/09/2019 06:17

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

CadburysTastesVileNow · 23/09/2019 06:37

Would love an update.

hhsonmum · 05/10/2019 00:25

That's bullshit - you have a complete right to be upset. It's not fair, and it's discrimination.

You should have a conversation with your manager about how you have achieved your objectives, you're a valuable member of the team, and that the very real logistics of being a mother should not put you at a disadvantage versus single(?) men. He will hopefully get the hint and feel embarrassed (rightly) and promote you as you deserve.

hhsonmum · 05/10/2019 00:27

oops just read more of the thread - congrats on the new job! you deserve it! xx

Caucho · 06/10/2019 00:29

If it’s a big firm with a proper HR system in place you will need to be objective and look at whether you can tick the boxes required. My firm is fairly explicit about all roles but yes it can be frustrating when the rules and criteria are bent somewhat for favourites and treated religiously for others.

I’ve got no problem with juniors jumping me sometimes through. I don’t believe in time served and when someone does come along who’s shit hot and I think actually deserves it I won’t moan that they’re younger or I’ve been there longer

InsideLondon · 06/10/2019 21:40

Does anyone know of a London group that supports on this issue?

IceniSky · 09/10/2019 20:58

I've been spending a lot of time reading up on indirect discrimination and second generation gender bias. People really don't understand it at all and it is everywhere.

Similar to you. Managing a male team of technical people, reporting to senior Male managers, and it is tough. We've been through some changes, one of my male employees got annoyed at things, handed in his resignation. He ended up with a payment to stay, working on special projects and is now bypassing me going direct to more senior managers. I've been there for over a decade, him 18 months.

Issues I've been pushing for so long, that always ends up with senior management cancelling telecons, not responding to emails or telling me to send more detail in 1 2 1s only takes this employee one email to gets things addressed! He didn't even copy me in.

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