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Original poster

Angry and sad that junior colleagues have been promoted over me.

101 replies

samsamsamsamsamsam · 16/05/2019 21:14

I have just received an email to say that 2 of our team (of 5 who do the same job) have been made 'Senior'.

Both of them have been in the 'non senior' role for less than a year. And neither of them were Product Owners before.

At an appraisal earlier on this year, my boss gave me a raise and said that I had been doing very well and he was really happy with the way things were going, my team were churning out lots of good work (we work in development) - more so than any of the other 4 development teams.

At this appraisal, I obviously thanked him for the money and we chatted about what I wanted from the future - I said I wanted to be made senior (which is a logical step) and he agreed that if I nailed my objectives for q1 I would be made senior. Which I did.

Since then, everything has been going well, I thought. Boss continued to give great feedback in 121's etc.

And now this email.

One of the guys made senior is a good Product Owner, solid, and has delivered a great project in his first 6m in the job. But that is it. One project, in total. 6 months total working as a product owner (he was in a client facing role before) and now he's more senior than me.

The other guy, who has less experience, was a former developer who handed his notice in, and was offered this role as a carrot to stay. He has also delivered one good project. However, his second project was very delayed because he over-featured it and it was full of bugs. This was a small feature that was critical to our platform. So it shouldnt have been delayed, and it caused my team to have to step in and fix what was broken with his code. So this is the one that hurts to me. And I hate that it hurts me. But it feels like I am being demoted, rather than them being promoted if you see what I mean.

I have this feeling it's about availability. I have a child, so I can't travel to the other side of the world at a week notice to meet clients as they can. This scenario happened 2 weeks ago, and I had to say no, and so he got sent to Australia to meet some clients.

What can I do? I feel embarrassed about it. I hate that I feel emotional like this over a promotion.

OP posts:
BIWI · 17/05/2019 09:54

I'm not trying to victim blame at all. Just pointing out that not having formal childcare in place means that the OP is not always able to do her job. And, sadly, this is bound to have an impact on how she's treated at work.

OKBobble · 17/05/2019 10:06

Can I ask why you felt it was your place to say no to Australia to enable your DH tonfo to Sweden. Why didn't he turn down Sweden to enable you to go to Australia?

flowery · 17/05/2019 10:06

"How many of us could have overnight childcare available at a week's notice? Nice blaming the OP there"

Loads of people could. Any two parent family usually could. Just not both parents at the same time. DH's job requires him to travel sometimes, usually with notice but not always. Because of my work (self-employed, can work from home or around kids) he can do this. Whereas I travel and stay away once a year, which involves a fair amount of disruption for DH and wouldn't be doable often.

For both of us to have frequent or late-notice travel requirements would be impossible without grandparents on standby or similar.

If it's a crucial part of the senior role, it may be relevant. But if they are penalising the OP when it's not actually a crucial part of the role at all, that's something different, as it is imposing an unnecessary requirement which is more likely to have a detrimental effect on women as they are more likely to have caring responsibilities.

OKBobble · 17/05/2019 10:06

*to go to

flowery · 17/05/2019 10:07

"Can I ask why you felt it was your place to say no to Australia to enable your DH to go to Sweden. Why didn't he turn down Sweden to enable you to go to Australia?"

I thought that, but to be fair, the OP said there was less than a week's notice, so if her DH's travel was already arranged, it's fair enough.

ChicCroissant · 17/05/2019 10:10

I really wouldn't go in claiming discrimination. I am surprised people are suggesting that you consider that at this stage - we have no idea of how effectively any of the people involved actually perform at work! There may not be a good reason why they were promoted, but equally there may be a really good reason that we just don't know about!

mummyhaschangedhername · 17/05/2019 10:13

I think you need to go in and ask. I've never worked that type of role so I have no idea what's appropriate to ask or not, but I couldn't not ask, especially when your other colleague sounds like they messed up recently. Not saying there is discrimination here but are there many females in senior roles?

ssd · 17/05/2019 10:18

I can understand your anger. But it sounds like these guys can drop things at a moments notice and do the travelling required for the job. You can't. It's part of being a parent. Unless you can work out reliable childcare at short notice you may have to be realistic and accept what's going on. It's not fair though, but life isn't fair.

Original poster
samsamsamsamsamsam · 17/05/2019 13:30

My partners trip to Sweden was planned months in advance, I had hardly any time notice to go to Sydney.

No interviews were carried out, just a shiny new title and pay rise. They aren't even doing anything senior. Same jobs as before.

OP posts:
Chewbecca · 17/05/2019 13:44

You’ve got to have a calm, open conversation with your mgr about this when you’re ready and know you will be able to keep cool and factual. Good luck.

JaneEyreAgain · 17/05/2019 15:35

Go to your boss. Say that you have completed your objectives and have experience and why have you not been promoted as per the written plan?

Also, say that you are concerned that due process has not been followed when the other two members of staff with less experience and a non-compliant project were promoted ahead of you.

Say that you are concerned that you are being overlooked in favour of newly arrived male colleagues and you want to understand why. Gently remind him that you are in a minority being female in your industry and hope that the company will be supportive of your career and ask about the possibility of finding a senior female mentor.

JaneEyreAgain · 17/05/2019 15:38

Oh and if he mentions availability to travel at short notice, point out that you travelled to San Fransisco and that for 85% of the month you are available to travel with the exception of the 3 days per month that your husband travels and that these are planned well in advance. Plus that you would be very happy to liaise with potential customers and discuss moving the dates as and when required.

OKBobble · 17/05/2019 16:37

I seriously think if she says that she can travel except when her husband has to is detrimental to her saying she can do the job. It is like admitting that the man is more important when her whole case at work is that they shouldn't be!!

ssd · 17/05/2019 18:16

Sounds like jobs for the boys then......

Blankiefan · 17/05/2019 19:59

Whilst it's wrong, people get put in boxes. If you're not valued where you are, look elsewhere. It can be easier to relay cu yourself in a new environment

Your skill set is rare and you will be in demand.

Blankiefan · 17/05/2019 20:01

That should say, it can be easier to relaunch yourself in a new environment.

blankittyblank · 17/05/2019 20:21

I would definitely raise the fact that they are men and you are a woman with them. They'll shit themselves when they realise they could be accused of sexism. You also need to ask them exactly why they were promoted over you, with all the evidence together proving you've done everything asked of you.

I work in the tech industry and a similar thing happened in my old firm where a guy got promoted over 3 women who'd been there longer! They took the company to court! Obvs not saying the way you should play it, but these tech companies have got to show they're doing more for women.

Good luck!

Mythreefavouritethings · 17/05/2019 20:32

The manager sounds woolly at best. You delivered, he rewarded you, you flagged up the Senior goal, he gave you a target to aim for. You hit the target. So far, so good. So yes, something has gone wrong. Regardless of the other employees’ ability to travel, he would surely have known your situation at the point of discussing the senior role so if that is a block, he should have let you know this. Emotionally, I would be the same, it feels like a real kicker and it is. But you’ve got to take a deep breath and turn ‘emotion’ into cold logic. You delivered what was asked, and whilst I agree with others you don’t want to fall back on the, ‘But they’re crap!’ argument, you can certainly highlight your role in the eventual success of their projects. Wallow and then get the fire in your belly. You’ve proven what you can do.

Original poster
samsamsamsamsamsam · 18/05/2019 11:33

Thanks guys for all your advice, its hard in a tech environment as a woman, and I am plagued with Impostor Syndrome at the best of times, but in this case, I KNOW I am more qualified than these other guys.

One of them came up to me at work yesterday in a slightly awkward way to chat about it and actually it gave me a lot of respect for him. He was as awkward as I was and admitted he was unsure of why it happened (I didn't prompt him ). It sort of felt like he felt like he needed to apologise to me which I feel weird about.

I have booked an apt with my boss for next week.

I have also spent 2h updating my CV today and began sending it out. So I have a foot in either camp.

OP posts:
Heratnumber7 · 18/05/2019 11:53

Please come back and let us know how you get on OP.
And good luck!

MisfitsMous · 18/05/2019 11:59

I would be incandescent about this tbh. I'd prepare my non-whingy evidence and ask when my promotion will be, or for similar solid evidence on how the other two were demonstrably better than me (are they better at managing peopke, perhaps?). If i didnt like the answer, i'd be job hunting.

Asdf12345 · 18/05/2019 12:05

“Bear in mind, you having the burden of childcare makes you vulnerable to indirect discrimination - for example, if your male colleague can stay late, at short notice, network, do all the stuff that companies like but you can't because you have your family to consider. You should not have to be held back because of that, your employer should value your contributions during your hours of work.”

I’m not sure this means the male colleague shouldn’t be rewarded for doing more than the OP though.

Original poster
samsamsamsamsamsam · 23/05/2019 13:54

I have caught a vomiting bug (Sod's law) so I haven't been able to catch up with my manager:

However in the past week I have found out that my colleagues have been given 20k pay rises with their promotions.

They've been telling people. I have also found out that there was a raft of pay rises across the dept. But not for me!

OP posts:
HollowTalk · 23/05/2019 13:58

Oh that is terrible! I would definitely take that up with HR.

CountFosco · 23/05/2019 14:13

Is your company big enough to have to publish its gender pay gap data? I think you absolutely have to tell them you have started looking elsewhere, make them work hard to retain you.