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Original poster

Angry and sad that junior colleagues have been promoted over me.

101 replies

samsamsamsamsamsam · 16/05/2019 21:14

I have just received an email to say that 2 of our team (of 5 who do the same job) have been made 'Senior'.

Both of them have been in the 'non senior' role for less than a year. And neither of them were Product Owners before.

At an appraisal earlier on this year, my boss gave me a raise and said that I had been doing very well and he was really happy with the way things were going, my team were churning out lots of good work (we work in development) - more so than any of the other 4 development teams.

At this appraisal, I obviously thanked him for the money and we chatted about what I wanted from the future - I said I wanted to be made senior (which is a logical step) and he agreed that if I nailed my objectives for q1 I would be made senior. Which I did.

Since then, everything has been going well, I thought. Boss continued to give great feedback in 121's etc.

And now this email.

One of the guys made senior is a good Product Owner, solid, and has delivered a great project in his first 6m in the job. But that is it. One project, in total. 6 months total working as a product owner (he was in a client facing role before) and now he's more senior than me.

The other guy, who has less experience, was a former developer who handed his notice in, and was offered this role as a carrot to stay. He has also delivered one good project. However, his second project was very delayed because he over-featured it and it was full of bugs. This was a small feature that was critical to our platform. So it shouldnt have been delayed, and it caused my team to have to step in and fix what was broken with his code. So this is the one that hurts to me. And I hate that it hurts me. But it feels like I am being demoted, rather than them being promoted if you see what I mean.

I have this feeling it's about availability. I have a child, so I can't travel to the other side of the world at a week notice to meet clients as they can. This scenario happened 2 weeks ago, and I had to say no, and so he got sent to Australia to meet some clients.

What can I do? I feel embarrassed about it. I hate that I feel emotional like this over a promotion.

OP posts:
Namenic · 23/05/2019 14:36

Unless the travel is specified as part of the job requirement, it shouldn’t be considered in promotion surely? Good luck OP! I’m looking into transfer into the sector.

donajimena · 23/05/2019 14:46

I'm livid on your behalf. Good luck with the chat.

Original poster
samsamsamsamsamsam · 23/05/2019 15:04

Ahh... no my company has around 230 people - I was hoping we could be forced to reveal our gender pay gap.

Actually, we have a "women of X' group... I might push that idea in there.

thanks for the cool idea!

OP posts:
stressedoutpa · 23/05/2019 17:10

£20k?! Shock

That's outrageous. What the hell is going on?

I am very fed up of men who don't do a very good job/are lazy but time and again get promoted over really good women.

Original poster
samsamsamsamsamsam · 23/05/2019 17:54

I am very shocked about 20k, thats a lot compared to his base salary.

He isnt lazy, and he does an ok job but not a 20k extra ok job.

He and our boss have football bants though. Maybe its 20k football bants. ha ha.

OP posts:
stressedoutpa · 23/05/2019 20:42

The thing is, if your boss truly valued you and the other two had pipped you at the post in terms of performance he would have taken you to one side and explained it ahead of the promotion announcement.

When stuff like this happens to me I tend to ask myself what would I have done if the shoe were on the other foot (i.e. if I was the boss). Would I have told samsam she was doing a fantastic job, in line for promotion then promote two new members of staff over her without an explanation? No, I wouldn't because that's a bit of a shit way to treat someone.

You tell people how you expect to be treated. If nothing changes, you vote with your feet.

stressedoutpa · 23/05/2019 20:43

What are you going to do, op?

BogglesGoggles · 23/05/2019 20:46

YABU. You have no right to a promotion if you can’t meet the responsibilities. Eother sort out your childcare or just accept that your career will be limited by childcaring responsibilities for the time being.

ConfCall · 23/05/2019 21:00

I am really annoyed for you OP. However, tbh you’re coming across as a bit passive. Your original post was written 7 days ago and you haven’t done anything constructive about challenging this discrepancy. I appreciate that you’ve been sick, but ideally, this should have been addressed when it happened - and there was nothing stopping you phoning or emailing with your concerns. So, I’m thinking that they regard you as a safe pair of hands who doesn’t need to be “courted”, unlike the guy you mentioned who was offered a carrot to stay. I don’t mean to have a go at you, I just think you need to deal with this more assertively. Good luck. I hope you get something out of it, I really do.

runningpram · 30/05/2019 19:45

Please look for another job! I had a similar situation at work. Was constantly promised promotions that never materialised before suddenly being handed out like sweeties to my colleagues.
Boss made various excuses about how my colleagues were some how better etc
I handed in my notice and then suddenly miraculously I could have my pick of roles and jobs were coming out my ears. It's really annoying that this appears to be the way of things in many industries. It's particularly a bummer for women who are less likely to be able to move easily because of flexible working conditions, mat pay qualification etc

GeorgeTheFirst · 30/05/2019 19:50

I knew they'd both be men.

You have to have a focussed discussion about how you have met the targets you were set and ask, clearly, for the title and a £20k pay rise. Don't compare yourself to the men but ask, justify, and follow up in writing.

This bullshit happens to women all the time. Don't let it pass.

yazplease · 06/06/2019 12:43

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BIWI · 06/06/2019 13:20

I've reported your post @yazplease because I assume you haven't paid MNHQ for the privilege of using MNetters to help with your research?

ThePhoenixRises · 06/06/2019 13:41

@samsamsamsamsamsam
Did you manage to sort another meeting?

catontherun · 06/06/2019 15:54

Shocked at the £20K payrise. I'm clearly in the wrong job. Must steer my kids towards careers in this field.

This very much smacks of sex discrimination (football bants is highly indicative IME).

Have you had a chance to meet the manager or are you at a round of interviews having update your CV ?

cheeseypuff · 12/06/2019 11:13

Shocked by what I have read in your thread OP & disappointed that some posters think that your lack of "formal childcare" means you should be passed over for promotion.

As this promotion was one of your formal goals if your objectives were met, it should be very difficult for your bosses to wriggle out of. Have you had a chance to raise it with him yet?

isthisfairidontknow · 18/06/2019 22:44

Yes i have!

We talked about it in depth and I explained my concerns.

He largely admitted these two guys were promoted over me because he can rely on them to come in at 12am if something kicks off, or fly to aus at the drop of a hat and they have been doing extra work outside of hours sometimes.

I nearly spat my tea out at that, since I almost always do an hour or two after DD goes down for he night and often on a Sunday afternoon.

He just said he felt like he needed to reward them for the stuff they have been doing outside their own roles.

What I did say to him was that back a few months ago you said that I was on track for promotion, had something changed? He said no, I'm still on track and that he wants to promote me at the next opportunity (which I will wait to see if that's true)

He genuinely sounded apologetic and shocked that I had brought it up so I think he just thought I was going to roll over.

So I have given him to sept to come up with a promotion. If I get to then, then I'm out.

daisychain01 · 19/06/2019 05:41

He has openly admitted to you that he has discriminated against you, which is unlawful in UK law.

I would immediately confirm your conversation including the words he said, in writing and express your concern that you have to wait until Sept to receive equal reward and recognition as your male colleagues

He needs to promote you and backdate your promo pay increase to the same time as the two male colleagues .

daisychain01 · 19/06/2019 05:47

The reason you need to confirm the conversation straight away is to

  • protect yourself from him denying the conversation at a future time,
  • to ensure you have a case against your employer , who would be the Respondent in the case you chose to take out an Employment tribunal action
  • mitigate against this manager leaving the company and the matter never being resolved.

You have a strong case, it would be better to stay and be recognised than leave and never getting what you have earned and deserve

daisychain01 · 19/06/2019 05:50

He genuinely sounded apologetic and shocked that I had brought it up so I think he just thought I was going to roll over

No! He was called on his bad behaviour and knew he was painted into a corner.

He only apologised because he's been found out. No other reason.

Don't accept his hollow promises.

Tiredemma · 19/06/2019 05:52

I work in the public sector and am literally bewildered that you can just give people promotions without offering other people the opportunity to apply.
The unions would have us hung, drawn and quartered if we did this! Is this "normal practice"?

missbattenburg · 19/06/2019 06:05

Is this "normal practice"?

Yes. The public sector tend to think of promotions as new job openings so everyone has a fair shot at them. The private sector think of them as perks or rewards for jobs well done so they only go to people who 'earn' them (in theory). I think the public sector only have them available when there is an opening whereas the private sector tend to be able to promote when they like (they effectively create the job at the time of promotion).

There are a million different flavours of that across firms and some private tend to have more of a public way of thinking etc.

cordeliavorkosigan · 19/06/2019 06:11

I'm actually really angry on your behalf

missbattenburg · 19/06/2019 06:12

Ps OP your manager sounds like a naive idiot. Whether there is discrimination or not what fool a) admits they only promoted someone because they felt they owed them and b) allows a conversation about your promotion to be derailed talking about someone else's.

He is out of his depth talking about promotion and performance. I guarantee it. The bad news for you is that this means, if there is a performance reason why you were overlooked, he does not have the skills to tell you. Push him for the promotion and then find a way to report to someone else. In that firm or another. He is not going to be any further help to your career. You need someone with the ability to manage properly. This includes having clear and difficult conversations when needed.

StealthPolarBear · 19/06/2019 06:16

Kee ping my fingers crossed for September op