Holiday at work

[blondebarbie2001]

My oldest daughter recently had an interview with sainsburys where she was asked all of her pre booked holiday which she told the manager. She then got the job and has to fill out a separate holiday form giving the manager the dates that were given at the interview. However, when filling out the formal holiday form, she forgot to give a date that she needs off of work that she mentioned in her interview. Her manager is rarely in at the same time as her and is the only person who can complete holiday forms. The weekend needed off is the 6-8th of July which is very soon and she does not see her manager for a while. She rung the store and left a note for her line manager but I do not believe that her manager would have completed the form because she is very forgetful. When my oldest daughter spoke to her she said that she will probably need to find someone to swap shifts with however since she is new she doesn't know anybody and I think this is quite unfair.
Anyway background information done. Who is in the wrong here? Is the manager being disorganised in the wrong and not doing a holiday form right then and there or my daughter forgetting to say the dates in the formal filling of the holiday form but mentioning it in the interview and chasing her manager up to add it on? I thought that by law an employer has to honour all predetermined holiday if it is mentioned before the job is offered to them?

The responsibility must surely lie with your daughter who should have filled in the holiday form completely. It’s unfair to blame a disorganised manager when your own daughter didn’t complete the form correctly.

Can she communicate with the relevant manager in a different way eg email. And very apologetically explain the issue?

There is no law that says an employer has to honour pre booked holiday, no. They do it as it's sensible. Your daughter is in the wrong for not filling in the form correctly. The manager probably interviewed several people, some of whom were not offered jobs, she didn't keep a record of all their holiday dates because she knew they had to fill in the form when they join.
And how can you say the manager is quite forgetful when your daughter has only just started there and it was her who forgot to put all her dates on the form?

Sorry am new to this so not sure if I have answered correctly.
Anyway unfortunately she has no way of contacting her manager other than ringing the phone of the superstore and hoping her line manager is in. After the induction, my daughter asked her manager if there is any way that she could contact her and she said just ring the phone number and ask to speak to me. Once she had filled out the holiday form she realised immediately and told her line manager who said she would fill it out with her next time they were in together, which she didn't do, she didn't ask for my daughter to do so. My daughter then went to find her in the main office in the her break where the manager said they will fill one out next time they were together (which would have been Saturday) because she was busy at that moment doing a theory. However, my daughter realised she was not in on Saturday so rung the store to leave a message for her manager. On the phone, she said that she won't be able to fill in the form with her manager because she will not be in so have the man on the phone dates and said that it was on her interview form. What he wrote down and passed on is a different question but she did try.
I just thought that she had to legally honour all predetermined holiday that was mentioned. Surely it would have been easier to fill out the holiday form based upon the dates given at the interview ?

My daughter is well aware that the interview forms were still kept because when she was filling out the holiday form with the manager she said that she did not recognise a date given in September from her interview sheet. I was just curious to where a manger could fill out a holiday form based on a message via the phone and does not want to keep calling her manager because she does not want to seem annoying. Also, what would happened if she called in sick those days? She is physically unable to work those days since she is out of the country hence why it was one of the dates given at the interview

If she called in sick when they know she wants it off she’d probably get sacked. And righty so.

Is there no staff FB or intranet page where she can ask for a swap?

Unfortunately not. Her manager was meant to sign her up for the online HR which she is yet to do (after 4 weeks of employment) which would probably help the situation. The only means of contact provided to my daughter was the superstores landline. The HR department are also open 9-3 every weekday in the staff room however my daughter attends school and is contracted to work every Saturday and Sunday therefore the only person she can speak to about this would be her line manager. She tried to speak to 3 different supervisors about the issue but they all told her to speak to the line manager at the earliest convenience. It is just really stressing my daughter out and it is affecting her ability to revise for her exams and I'm not sure in how I can help

My daughters really helped the manager out recently. She covered 2 peoples shifts within the holidays when asked and was also called in asking if she could cover someone with 30 minutes notice. I thought that the least that the manager could do would be spare a few minutes to fill out a form or get my daughter to fill out the form

This is an odd one. I'd be amazed if my mum had this much insight into the holiday booking process and my line manager's availability! However, assuming you are the mum and not the daughter, I'd be advising my daughter as follows:

1. Booking holiday and filling in the form is the responsibility of the employee, not the manager. Fill the form in, submit it.
2. You don't need a face to face meeting to have holiday authorised - I've never worked anywhere where it isn't either submitted to a central team or your manager by email for authorisation. Doesn't matter where your manager works or when (I work for a 24x7x365 organisation, so very rare to be able to discuss in person!)
3. Shift swaps are a very real alternative, and usually a very productive one. Not being there long doesn't stop it happening - most workplaces have an intranet or group email address to advertise and offer shift swaps. I'd be really surprised if this wasn't the case at your daughter's workplace.

Ultimately it's the employee's responsibility to sort holiday, and I can't see anything from your daughter's situation that's not insurmountable without a bit of normal communication. Good luck, and I hope she gets it approved.

Can she (your DD) not simply request another holiday form and add the dates she missed?

Part of getting a job is learning life lessons. It may be that your DD is not granted that weekend off unless she can organise a shift swap.

Although at interview it's common to ask for AL requests this does not mean they are granted until someone is in employment.

She's not physically unable to do the job due to being out of the country, she doesn't have to be out of the country.

If she phoned in sick as a pp said she'll probably get sacked.

If she can't get hold of the manager and change the form, or seal the shifts, she'll have to forego the holiday.

She hasn't 'helped the manager out', she's worked a couple of extra shifts, in her job, that she gets paid for.

But you have been told the same by everyone and don't want to hear it, so shrug.

I only know all of this because it was really stressing my daughter out so she had told me everything.
On Sunday, when my daughter goes in to work I have told her to check the rota and if the holiday isn't booked off she will then request to speak to her manager. If she isn't in again she will try to book overtime so she can catch her. Again if not she will begin to ask random people if they will swap the whole weekend.
Thank you for the advice!

@RoseanneBarred she has done that twice now and the line manager said she was too busy so would do it next time. That's why she left a phone call :) x

She should complete a new holiday form and leave it for the attention of her manager. Has she joined the union? If so she could speak to the rep. They are usually able to speak to managers easily.

Does she know when her manager works? If so why doesn't she phone to speak to them then?

Her best bet is to just submit a new holiday form.

@SweetieBaby she is unsure of when her manager works and is not part of the trade union. Is she cutting it too fine to attempt to fill out a holiday form on the 15th of june for the second weekend in July?

It's Sainsbury's can't she go in after school and see the manager? Or leave a note for her with a new form saying she needs these dates as she forgot to add them. If not then no holiday or quit

@june04 apparently there are no holiday forms in the staff room the only one that has them are the manager. She is unsure on whether to call again but does not want to seem irritating which I'm not sure because as a manager myself if someone kept ringing me to book holiday I'd be quite annoyed but I suppose I'd get it done

Can she not just deal with the line manager?
Surely they have responsibilities if the manager isn't in?

@insancerre sorry I think I forgot to mention that her manager is the line manager!

In her place, having made a mistake in the initial firm, I think I would have gone in on the Saturday the manager was available, even though I wasn't due to work that day.

Taking responsibility, rather than saying how difficult it all is, is a powerful way forward.

I think it would be easier if your daughter went into the store after school one day, if she can't speak to the manager then leave a letter for HR asking for another form.

She won't need a face-to-face meeting to have it authorised and there is no legal obligation for the company to permit holidays booked before she started.

@blondebarbie2001 I work for a supermarket (not Sainsburys though) and we are meant to give 4 weeks notice to book holidays. That being said the managers do also have to either agree or refuse any request within 7 days, if they don't you will automatically are granted it.

We also have holiday forms available in an office (not the staffroom). We fill them in and then leave them for the manager either in their pigeon hole or on their desk. I would be surprised if the situation is as she describes. She should ask another staff manager what the process is if you don't get to see your manager. They can't expect you to not book holiday just because you don't see your manager. She also needs to join the union asap. You never know when you might need their help.

As this is urgent now she should go into store as soon as she can or phone up while HR are there and ask them what the procedure is.

@SweetieBaby thank you for the advice and response! Just to confirm if she fills out the holiday form on Sunday and she does not find out whether it has been rejected or accepted it has to be granted?

@blondebarbie2001 well where I work the policy is that if they don't tell you one way or another then you would get it. This may not be the same for Sainsbury though. It's to stop the manager keeping staff waiting too long when they might need to book travel arrangements etc. Your daughter needs to check the rules in her staff handbook or ask a manager in store.

What I was trying to explain was that this seems quite an unusual set of circumstances ie no holiday forms available, can't request leave without speaking to your line manager specifically, no way of contacting your manager etc.

I think you will find that it's just that the procedures haven't been explained properly to your daughter.

@SweetieBaby yeah I do find the procedure quite strange put apparently HR is only open 9-3 weekdays and therefore she cannot find them and the only forms outside of HR are uniform request forms. I told her to try and find her manager on Sunday when she is in