Why do people work part time ? I've never understood it...

[mozhe]

I never have, but lots of colleagues in NHS did....you end up doing 3/4 of the work for 1/2 the salary, and get passed over in the promotion stakes...And have you noticed that it's nearly always women who do this ? Why ? I actively discourage junior staff from doing this but lots seem to....

As a mother, highly educated ( although crap at typing and lazy at proof reading)the views of the OP still leave me incredulous. God forbid I should ever come into professional contact with her, I truly don't think you understand people other than those who validate your decisions by choosing the same path.

Having worked in the NHS, I think in your field Mohze, you are probably right.

With the current lottery that is going on for junior posts, the idea of finding something worthwhile, part time and local is risible.

Possibly the reason that there are so many part time female GPs.

I don't agree with the OP, but neither do I agree that part time working is always a wonderful solution workwise. I have seen my colleague (and other part timers in previous jobs I have had) struggle with aspects of it. It is not always as good as it seems, from what I can see.

But whatever the drawbacks, that doesn't take away the fact that anyone who is part time get to spend more time with their children or on themselves.

That must be such a great plus. I imagine it must override any work related frustrations.

Mozhe - you didn't answer my question about part timers being more difficult to manage in a busy term. Is this a problem you encounter perhaps? Is this partly why you don't like your staff working shorter hours as it impacts on you?

I don't think any work pattern is perfect for everyone though Tigermoth.

Life is a series of compromises for most people, and that includes work.

Interesting viewpoint about medication Mozhe, and not without its merits I have to say, but I guess that's another thread altogether.

Well you evolve constantly as a person dont you. And the job that you trained for at such an age may not interest you any more at a later life stage. Or working life as a whole with its competitive, perhaps uncreative, commute laden bullshitting side becomes less appealing.....and you can continue to have and income and some independance, and also to take the fun bits of working life, the social stimulating part, by being part time, and then still be happy/energetic/creative at home, which is so important for the rest of your family. Or you can trog away doing something you dont really enjoy so that your family can feast away their evenings on (expensive) microwaved convenience food. If you love your job and it pays enough to cover good childcare/ housework help- great. If you dont- not so good. Not everyone can afford to retrain in something else, and not everyone lives in an area where there are many well paid jobs around. If you can afford to be a mum for a few years, or at least of it doenst make you much worse off, and youre not particularly passionate about your working life, why not just let life ahead of you unfold as it will and enjoy what you have for now! A good nanny and some help with shopping/cleaning can perhaps be just as good for kids as having a parent looking after their needs, but lets face it, a busy creche and evenings spent racing round the supermarket/rushing knackeredly through household chores is probably not ideal for anyone in a family, parent or child......

And while Im here..why do people use the phrase 'school fees' to explain why they work so hard? Britain has one of the best free schooling systems in the world. All of my siblings went to uni and did just fine with state education. It is purely a class issue, needing to send children to public school.

Daydreamer absolutely agree with you about our education system. It is so underrated and reviled by so many on Mumsnet. The comp I went to, many would not consider sending their precious off-spring there but I did well and ended up at university too.

I honestly think a lot of it is to do with class and mixing with the right sort, whatever that is.

daydream, someone somewhere will probably pick up that bit in your post about school fees - but not me

agree work is all about compromises, but just wanted to flag up the point that working part time can have downsides too.

Will also add, that everyone has the right to choose how they educate their children. I just hate the constant bashing of the state system that educates over 90% of our cildren.

Neither system is absolutely perfect but both are fit for purpose

Working at all has its downsides some days, lol.

Y'see today, I'm taking my younger two to a NT park for a play, a walk round and lunch. Doing this with a good friend and her ds.

When ds2 goes to school nursery this afternoon I'm going to get a party gift for tomorrow and then I can wrap it this afternoon.

Then, I can go and pick ds1 and ds2 up from school and talk to them about their day over a snack, make their tea and then hand them over to dh while I get ready to go out tonight with friends.

I'll have started on the wine by 7.30.

Ah, nice and relaxed on one of my 'non-working' days. Now if I was working 7-7 today, when the hell would I fit any of that in?

And yesterday I got about 5 loads of washing done, changed all the beds, cleaned the kitchen and bathrooms - all interspersed with some TV and jigsaws with ds3.

Jobs all done leaving us a whole weekend to do family stuff and meet up with friends.

No stress.

A full week at work next week - a change, something a bit different.

Following week is school hols so going on holiday with the kids and dh.

Nice and balanced I'd say.

Well, works for me anyway.

I haven't read all of this thread but IMO, working part time would be my ideal set up. I think I speak for the majority of other parents.

Unfortunately, there aren't many stimulating pt jobs around here in my previous line of work (being a competitive industry and all that) so unless people start to drop attitudes such as the OP's people like me with both a brain and a desire to be with their children are simply never going to fulfill their right to do both.

Picking up on two points in one of your posts Mohze:

Education is not only a means to work it is always worth having/pursuing for its own sake

Re: stress (you said distress below which is not the same thing) I could probably have overworked 20 years ago and not felt the stress but I certainly couldn't do it now even though I only have one child.

I do also earn money outside of my part-time WOTH job.

Daydreambeliver, re school fees, what's wrong with spending one's money on school fees, how bizarre that could be anyone else's business (NOT getting into private/state debate)

Just meaning to add, it is not that the NHS is unflexible at part time working, far from it, job shares are indeed quite ussual.

I know even my favourite 2 GPs work PT (actually, I have the idea that everybody in the practice may be PT in diffrent degrees). I have seen people doing managing work being PT and they do it brilliantly. As long as the expectatives for the post are reasonable to be met PT, things should be OK.

However, I wold expect that a culture of job sharing would only be possible in jobs where the rest of the team share certain abilities and the manager is a good one distributing the jobs to do. If a PT worker is working too many extra hours it means the post is not well planned. Unfortunately, for some jobs, a PT scheme would just not work.

On reflection, what is scariest about this thread is the observation in the original post that state-funded institutions may well be even worse than private sector companies regarding with respect to flexible working practices and discrimination.

Good to know all of our tax dollars are supporting such cutting edge thinking/working practices.

Have just skimmed through the thread and Mozhe's messages and I can not stop thinking about it...

My mother was a bit of a workaholic, if she didn't have a demanding enough FT job, she would find another or something else that added a good challenge for the rest of the day. I very much respect her for all the things she has managed to do, and the positive effect she has had in others by doing it.

We were not neglected in anyway, she managed to be around most of the time when we were out of school and had a lot of help either from nannies or near relatives to take care of us when her work prevented her from ding it. I think she was happy and we were fine.

However... seeing things in retrospective... I think that the people that has had a major influence in my life were those people who supported her (no complains about it, they were marvellous people who I very much respect and learned much from them), she was around most of the time but she was not much with us IYWIM. She was always busy trying to complete something or too tired/focused in other things to encourage a more active/deep communication with us. I think she thinks she knows us well for she tried to be around but deep down we know she doesn't.

First time I get to see the things this way, so just a thought. (No pityness requested either, as I said, I was cared for by wonderful people , not an attack on Mozhe either but just something to consider, and I make it clear, I repsect everybody's choice for working arrangements. I enjoy working part time but understand that a good number of persons are much better working FT or not working at all

An interesting post, Chandra. Since having her dcs, my own mother has worked four days a week as a dentist.

Your line about your mother, "She was always busy trying to complete something or too tired/focused in other things to encourage a more active/deep communication with us," was and is still very much the case with my mother. (Again, no need for pity or violins I'm usually quite OK with it nowadays!).

It was the same with her own mother - she was a SAHM but from what I have gathered really extreme in her inattentiveness to her five dc's emotions and needs. I hope to God I don't go the same way, although I can see it happening sometimes as I have lots of interests and a selfish need to fulfill them. I'm not great at dealing with other's feelings because strong emotion was viewed v negatively in our house as I grew up, but it is something I'm trying to overcome and I think I've become a lot better at it.

Excuse the naval gazing and slight hijack, just needed to add my bit to Chandra\s post!

Tigermoth- to your question..no, not really I don't think, but I often feel sorry for them because they often seem to be much more pressed than fulltime colleagues, and miss out on things that are going on when they are not here..plus, the get less ££s and seem to do more work in their time off. Our part time social worker in my team ' back home ' is always coming in on her day off,( virtually every week..), and often with her 2 LOs in tow to do something....
Gobbledigook- I do stuff like that every day, it could go like this...park + breakfast in a cafe on the way to school/work, lots of chatting and catching up on homework etc.,( I only work 7-7 in London, french academe doesn't operate those hours so it's more 9-5 here..),buy gift at lunchtime/ wrap in the evening,talk to kids on phone/skype whenever a spare moment or two,( Skype great as we can see each other which DDs love ) AND we start on th e wine at lunchtime here ....You can get lots into a day !

I went back to full time work and hated it. Part time working suits me much better. However, surely we are all missing the point? There isn't a 'one size fits all' solution to balancing childcare / parenting and work. What keeps one mother sane drives another up the wall etc etc. This type of debate doesn't always have to end up as a cliched 'career b*tch versus downtrodden p/t worker-mum' thing, does it? I hope not! Life is a bit more complex than that for most of us.

Flexible working and lots of options - that's what mothers need.

xxx

chandra - "She was always busy trying to complete something or too tired/focused in other things to encourage a more active/deep communication with us. " That sends chills down my spine....because that is how I am. And I work part-time (well 30 hours plus plenty of extra). It's what worries me all the time. But can't afford not to.

TBH I think I can partly agree with Mozhe in some ways. You do feel as if you are missing out. I don't do social stuff, I have fewer work frienships than I did as I don't have time to chat in the kitchen making coffee. And even though I don't get paid overtime I do end up doing loads because that's what I did before I went part-time. And because we have less money than before there is no paid help with the household stuff. BUT the biggest plus is that when it's 3pm I walk out that door. It doesn't always make me popular, I can be seen as awkward becase I can't and won't be flexible about that, but it means that I am there to pick my kids up and hear about their day. The other scenario for me is to commute 45 miles a day to the nearest city, work full-time, get paid 2x as much and pay a nanny. Easier in some ways but not something I could face just now .

I never understood it either. Your husband assumes you can doo all the house things and children are your responsibility and work is cross because you can't really do the job properly and you often get full time work for part time hours and you're career over the next 40 years is often shot to pieces. Worst of all worlds. Also you have that position in regards to your partner, if you have one, that you are the house person so it's also a power and domestic issue too. You are lesser economically, earn less, he is more, supports the family and your money is just kind of minor pin money so you lose status both at work, in society and in your relationship.

We certainly don't want state or private companies sidelining women into pathetic part time work whilst letting exalted men work full time hours. That does women down even though they seem to think it's in their interests. They are wrong. It just continues inequalities. By all means if an employer or tax pywers can afford it allow people to work shorter hours for less pay to look after their horse, mother or child or do the garden more but let us not have structures which in effect force women to be part time and flexible and leave men to work properly with all the pay and status and fun that brings.

Always palm lots of ' domestic ' stuff on my DH....he's brilliant at getting birthday party gifts...whereas I always tend to buy a book.He does all his own ironing, and often mine too, as he thinks ironing lady is rubbish....I do the tax returns though,( mine and his , what do think about this xenia ? )..