To bring an employment claim?

[CheeseonTwats]

Apologies it's a long one.

I was fired on the spot from my job last week. It's all still very raw. It was a good job I planned to stay in for a long time. I had been there just over a year and really enjoyed it.

The only difficult part of the job was working with a colleague who openly despised me from day one. Although she never made it clear why, I put it down to the fact that I was more qualified than her and younger but had more responsibility. She made regular attempts to undermine me and sabotage my work.

It all got very heated on a Friday. She'd made an error which I had to fix and when she asked why I'd interfered and I explained, she became irate. She screamed in my face and told me she would get me fired because she was sick to death of seeing my face. Unfortunately no one was around to hear this as it was after everyone had gone home.

I planned to go in early on Monday and report her to the boss as I was very shaken by the encounter. When I arrived the boss was in meetings for two hours. I then found out that she'd been out with my colleague for coffee for an hour before the meetings, which is unheard of.

After her meetings, I was called into the office via phone. The boss's secretary was there to take notes. The boss said she was really disappointed in me because she had heard that I'd told my colleague no one liked her and not to bother coming back to work (untrue). Colleague now felt like she couldn't work with me and threatened to leave. Boss said as colleague had been there longer (3 months longer) I should be the one to go.

I was in utter disbelief and asked for clarification if I was being fired. Boss said 'yes there's no other option but we'll pay you your notice period if you leave the building immediately because Colleague has her things packed ready to leave if you don't'.

I wasn't given the opportunity to give my side of the story as I was escorted out. I then received a Facebook message from colleague that said 'told you I'd get you fired '.

I called acas who told me to check my contract. It says 'all employees are subject to disciplinary procedures outlined in the staff guide.' I got hold of the guide and it confirms that all employees, regardless of length of service and including staff in their probationary period will be subject to the procedures outlined. It then has a very clear structure for both misconduct and gross misconduct that wasn't followed at any stage.

Acas have told me I have a claim for wrongful dismissal based on them not following their own guide and not offering me a representative.

I now have to write to them but I'm so exhausted by it all I'm questioning if it's worth putting myself through it.

What would you do?

I just wanted to say good luck with whatever you decide and sorry you had such a horrible time

Thanks you for all of the help.

Thanks flowery for the heads up on what to expect in their response, that's extremely helpful.

I tried to sit down and write it out this morning but just entering the email address made me feel sick. Writing it all out in a formal way makes it clear how utterly ridiculous the situation is, I can't believe I'm here.

I guess I can take my time with it, keeping in mind the 3 month time limit, so I can look back at it in a few days to make sure no emotion has crept in as that's proving difficult.

Thanks again everyone. You're brilliant

Yes take some time out so it's not as raw and remember this is no reflection on you!! Glad you're sounding a bit brighter x

How are you feeling @cheeseOnTwats ?

I've been meaning to update since Friday but couldn't remember my password.

So I sent the email on Friday in the format you provided Appraiser, thanks again for that. I kept it factual and had DH read over to make sure it was ok. It was a decent length and got all of my points across, I made it clear what I wanted them to do and I ended it with 'I hope to receive your response within 7 days as outlined in the staff guide'.

I got a response that afternoon that read:

'What do you want us to respond to?'

No dear, thanks for your email, regards, etc. just that one question.

I was too furious to respond. I had no idea they could be so unprofessional.

In which case, treat them like the morons they are and copy the relevant bits from your previous email but this time bullet point the bits.

They are stalling for time so make sure you remind them they have seven days from the date of their receipt of the original email.

No advice as such but one thing you could do is submit a Subject Access Request. For no other reason than to create a shit load of extra work for Human Remains . It's perfectly legal and compulsory by law. Have a look here under 'How do I make a request?'. There's even a template and you can email the request. Spiteful but quite cathartic I found. Good luck.

Sorry cheese I suspected that would be their response (if one at all)

It is appalling what they've done and the fact they are not listening to your side of the story speaks volumes of how this will go if you proceeded further. It appears like they're relying on your length of service and know that there is very little you can do next other than go for Breach of Contract.

As PP have stated, BOC route could be argued by the Company and all you then get is a few months of waiting and getting upset and frustrated at the lack of injustice that they've managed to get away with it (see Flowery's post re: BOC)

Sorry this is happening to you. Have you found any jobs in your area?

For no other reason than to create a shit load of extra work for Human Remains

Considering this is on a Employment Law board which attracts many HR professionals and employment lawyers, calling us human remains is brave. I hope you don't ever need our support in the future OrangeBird69

I was treated incredibly badly by my last employer. They finally settled on a CA and a very nice 5 figure sum to get rid of me. They contributed to my need for a high dose of antidepressants required for severe depression caused by stress at work and also beta blockers for a year. All Human Remains did for me was bully, lie, and threaten me. The 5 figure sum that was forthcoming after my solicitor got involved (and incidently way more than I would have been awarded if I'd taken it to tribunal for constructive dismissal) basically showed how dreadfully wrong they had behaved. I'm not brave at all. Just saying it as I see it. You might be fabulous and very employee centric Appraiser. Sadly, some of your fellow professionals really are just complete cunts. As was proved to me when I got the 8 boxes of data I legally requested and duly received AFTER a threat of report to the ICO when they failed to comply within 40 days of my initial request. Which they denied receiving. Funny that the cheque for £10 that accompanied that request was cashed within the 40 days though .

Errr - are you me?! Obvs you're not but my sincere condolences. I could've written half your post.

They have shown you their attitude to this situation is one of folding their arms, doing nothing and seeing what you will do. They don't feel they need to explain themselves, and even if they don't reply within 7 days, they will still continue to maintain they have acted within employment law in terms of paying you notice and explaining it hasn't worked out.

You could continue to pursue the matter but over the long term it could damage your health and the prospects of a new job. Big payouts are rare, the human cost is invariably far greater than the monetary gain, and the time taken to resolve is normally at glacial pace (up to a year).

Orange it sounds like you had an awful experience, however I expect you had over 2 years' service as the foundation for your claim, which the OP does not have. And protected characteristics.

Just need to make the important distinction regarding the 5 figure Settlement Agreement.

Key thing in all cases is the ability to somehow reconcile the situation, whether a payment is, or isn't received, and be able to rebuild confidence in a new role.

No doubt, employment conflicts can hollow a person out

Although PCs are applicable from day one of course.

I do wish they would give us an edit button

It was dreadful Daisy. Totally and utterly shocking. Sorry if I offended you but what I've said above is clearly just a brief synopsis of my experience with HR - the finer details are worse. I know it's anecdotal but sadly not all HR personnel are like you

What do you want us to respond to?

I refer you to paragraph x of my letter/email:

In summary, I have lost my job through no fault of my own and urge you to reconsider this position before I pursue the external legal process

In your final pay don't forget they will need to pay you any holiday that you have not taken

@Appraiser I'm sure plenty of you decent employment law and HR people have just as bad an opinion of incompetent and/or malicious people performing the HR function? This sort of idiotic response (from the OP's company) surely just underlines that it's important to be professional about HR functions, not outsource them to who-knows-who, or ignore the function/ legal responsibilities completely!

You know, there is not a bunch of HR people sitting around wondering how best to piss people off and put the company at risk.
I will say you a director "don't do that, it puts the company at risk of a constructive dismissal claim" and they do it anyway. I then have to try to put it right, or defend the company somehow.

HR is just the face you see. They do not make the decisions, they are doing as they are told. I'm lucky, I'm very senior and also happy to walk away from a job where senior people behave unethically, but most people can't.

To blame HR is like blaming your TV for the bad programmes on it.

Whenever I tell anyone I am in HR they say "oh, I hate HR people*, an HR person did x to me/my brother/my friend...." etc. No. They didn't. The company did. They're not behaving badly while some senior person sits behind them saying "no, no, treat all our staff really really well, make sure everyone is looked after" with the HR person saying "no, I'm going to behave like a total bastard because it's all anyone ever deserves" - quite the opposite.

*but funny how they all come running to me when they need help, eh?

@OutToGetYou

I am not disputing what you are saying is true.

HOWEVER; HR reps seem to have a problem in evidencing to the complainant - and even more so if the complainant is the subordinate to the person/people at "fault" - that they are doing what they can to make the voice of the "weaker" person heard.

In my experience it was virtually impossible to know if my valid points and issues were being represented in the robust way my manager's were to me. To me, HR did an excellent job of rationalising and legitimising bullying behaviour by allowing my boss to twist company policy to a laughable extent.

This led to my leaving the company as they could not evidence they'd represented my points appropriately. All I wanted as an outcome from HR was a plan to enable my boss and I to work together - collaboratively. My boss didn't give a toss and it was the lack of proof of action that led to my resignation.

In short; if the weaker person can't evidence that HR are representing their views appropriately against the stronger person then is it any wonder they have a bad rap?

HR don't work for you, they work for the company. If you're being treated badly, get advice from outside the company. HR is not your friend or union rep.

FWIW; I would be interested to hear the experiences of people who've felt HR did a good job as - brace yourself - they do exist! But again in my experience they tend to be in workplaces with strong Union representation and I get the impression that if there's a Union involved HR tend to be a bit quicker to evidence their representation of BOTH disputing sides to get to a point of resolution.

Ha. Cross post.

A bit of a flippant response though Out, that's not really covering HR in glory.

Yea just to say I'd be a bit miffed if anyone sought hr advice from anyone else, I pride myself on managing the relationships as a two way street and while I'd never tell an employee outright that my company were mistreating them I'd have no problem telling the manager they were being a shit (obvs not as blunt as that!) And work with both parties to try and resolve.

Fwiw I have gone toe to toe against a Director who was being discriminatory towards an employee but was just below the radar. I ended up doing his settlement agreement 3 months later ;)

It is for the employer. The employer who is the one paying the wages. The HR person is there to protect the company, NOT the individuals.

The person who responded to the email knows full well the op has no claim. The email is rude but that's a different matter. No HR person is going to go to the senior team and say "I feel sorry for this person who has no claim at all, why don't you offer them something." The company does not want their HR team wasting its time on pointless email exchanges. That's not what they pay people to do.

But my point is - it's not HR that's the problem, it's the company. No individual made the decision to behave like this on their own. Thus it's surely a company one does not wish to work for.