To bring an employment claim?

[CheeseonTwats]

Apologies it's a long one.

I was fired on the spot from my job last week. It's all still very raw. It was a good job I planned to stay in for a long time. I had been there just over a year and really enjoyed it.

The only difficult part of the job was working with a colleague who openly despised me from day one. Although she never made it clear why, I put it down to the fact that I was more qualified than her and younger but had more responsibility. She made regular attempts to undermine me and sabotage my work.

It all got very heated on a Friday. She'd made an error which I had to fix and when she asked why I'd interfered and I explained, she became irate. She screamed in my face and told me she would get me fired because she was sick to death of seeing my face. Unfortunately no one was around to hear this as it was after everyone had gone home.

I planned to go in early on Monday and report her to the boss as I was very shaken by the encounter. When I arrived the boss was in meetings for two hours. I then found out that she'd been out with my colleague for coffee for an hour before the meetings, which is unheard of.

After her meetings, I was called into the office via phone. The boss's secretary was there to take notes. The boss said she was really disappointed in me because she had heard that I'd told my colleague no one liked her and not to bother coming back to work (untrue). Colleague now felt like she couldn't work with me and threatened to leave. Boss said as colleague had been there longer (3 months longer) I should be the one to go.

I was in utter disbelief and asked for clarification if I was being fired. Boss said 'yes there's no other option but we'll pay you your notice period if you leave the building immediately because Colleague has her things packed ready to leave if you don't'.

I wasn't given the opportunity to give my side of the story as I was escorted out. I then received a Facebook message from colleague that said 'told you I'd get you fired '.

I called acas who told me to check my contract. It says 'all employees are subject to disciplinary procedures outlined in the staff guide.' I got hold of the guide and it confirms that all employees, regardless of length of service and including staff in their probationary period will be subject to the procedures outlined. It then has a very clear structure for both misconduct and gross misconduct that wasn't followed at any stage.

Acas have told me I have a claim for wrongful dismissal based on them not following their own guide and not offering me a representative.

I now have to write to them but I'm so exhausted by it all I'm questioning if it's worth putting myself through it.

What would you do?

This is what is weighing heavily in my mind, I wouldn't be surprised if my colleague went as far as to contact my future employers or colleagues to cause trouble for me. I removed my LinkedIn account because she viewed my profile constantly after I was fired. I feel like I'm hiding away ashamed of something I didn't even do.

She's about 10 years older than me. We're both same race and religion.

She was always very difficult and her behaviour was so unpredictable I am fearing what could come next if I do pursue this.

My dad passed away soon after I started working there. Everyone was really lovely and got me flowers and cards. I'd heard from others that she was questioning if I was telling the truth because 'it was all too convenient timing, new girl gets everyone to feel sorry for her' and she wanted to see proof. My brother posted a poem on my FB wall that he'd found for dad's funeral and colleague commented on it 'show us the death certificate'. She then deleted it a few hours later but not before a few of my friends had replied in disbelief.

We later found out that someone had been calling to see if the death certificate could be made available to them insisting they were family but there's only two of us so it was obvious something was dodgy.

Off topic to my post but just wanting to show how she has no line she won't cross and it really concerns me that she'll make my life hell if I cause her any upset.

Do not let this go
She is a bully and needs to be dealt with appropriately

I think you should pursue it as you do have a case.

Listen to Flowery OP. You're on to plums. They've agreed to pay your notice and you don't have the requisite service. You might recover pay for the length of time it would have taken to follow the correct process but that's it and it's not worth it. Just because she's older than you doesn't mean age discrimination. Yes it's rotten and unfair but walk away.

You have a very straightforward case of wrongful dismissal. She's placed her head in a noose of her own making with the FB message and you can prove she has form with the comment re the death cert for your dad (no actual words that is awful).

ACAS can and will help you. Don't end up dropping out the workforce like I did for two years because my confidence was shattered by a bully I was too exhausted to pursue legally.

Do this for you and keep your head held high.

Op isn't asking for legal advice,she's had that from ACAS, she's asking what would you do as she's exhausted by it and is wondering if she can face it.
OP the more you write the worse this woman is. You have witnesses on fb of her horrendous behaviour after your fathers death, and the screenshot after you were fired. I can understand you questioning if it's worth the stress but I really think it is. Would other people in the company speak out?
I'd follow the advice given by ACAS.
This so soon after your fathers death must seem insurmountable, try and look after yourself, keep friends close and ask for support if you need it.
Good luck

Hi all,

We're just moving this over to our Employment topic at the OP's request.

Sounds to me like they have breached their contract if the disciplinary procedures apply regardless of LOS which means you can bring a claim but I believe youd only be entitled to loss of earnings which have already been made in part as they have paid you notice, iirc you can put a claim in for potential future loss which would cover a realistic prediction of how long it would take you to find another role plus any financial benefits such as pension contributions etc. Would it be worth the stress, duration of the process and risk of your name getting known if you work in an 'incestuous' industry is the question you need to be asking.

No harm in putting in a complaint to HR at this stage though, Def. Include the screenshot. Good luck.

cheese I commented when this was in AIBU further up thread and my advice still stands.

Think about what you want to get out of pursuing this further?

Getting the other lady into trouble?
Principle?
Money?
Your job back?

The next step you could take will depend on the answer to that question.

A strongly worded "appeal" against the dismissal may get you an offer of more money or your job; or absolutely no response (which given the company have dismissed you so easily, I suspect the latter)

Thank you all and MN for the move.

I posted because I would like to know what others would do in my position but also what I should do next. Acas have been very helpful but it's all purely factual. If in reality I'm going to put my efforts into this for it to have no outcome then I don't think I can face it. So I would like to know from a legal point of view if it's worth it and from others who've maybe been through the process if they are glad they did?

I've checked the staff guide for how to make a grievance and it all seems straight forward. It struck me though why that process wasn't followed when the colleague complained about me?

Appraiser I think I'm finding the injustice hard to move on from so brining it to their attention what she's really like would help to clear my name. That might then give me a better chance of a clear reference?

I don't want my job back.

The position was very rare and it's likely I'm going to have to move to find another and it won't be easy so compensation would certainly help.

do you have legal cover on your home insurance - why do people insist in asking this question. Legal cover with your home insurance is for your home! legal cover on your car insurance is for accidents relating to the vehicle!

The Aviva household insurance policy provides legal cover, for which the policyholder can elect to pay an extra £23 per annum. It does include employment cover as do many other companies.

One thing to highlight, insurance co panel solicitors will only progress employment claims that have greater than 51% chance of success at ET, which isn't always mentioned on here. Which can be a helpful barometer of whether to pursue the claim, if they reject it you may think twice!

These insurance companies also provide an Employment helpline for policyholders, which provides an excellent source of support and information which goes beyond what ACAS covers, although ACAS are also a lifeline when you have the rug pulled out from beneath you.

Definitely get your situation in front of a solicitor, OP, and if you have legal cover, use it.

Be aware of the 3 months minus 1 day rule for Tribunal from the date of your dismissal (I'm not saying you definitely have a claim, but it's a very strict non-negotiable deadline to be aware of).

Remember you did really well in that job, don't let it dent your confidence!

And I've just read, you lost your Dad, sincere condolences to you.

The more you post about this woman, the more I think you should pursue a claim.

People like this cannot be allowed to get away scot free. Your claim processes will at least show her to be the nasty liar she is. You wouldn't want the job back & TBH I don't blame you - but the company have acted badly here and need to called out on it.

The award you'd get if you were to win would be very minimal tbh. You'd be talking maybe an extra month's pay I reckon. That you'd get afer maybe 6 months of faffing about.

You ask what others would do - personally my heart would want to take it all the way just to be a thorn in their side (although tbh having been involved in defending claims before it's more of an annoyance and paper pushing exercise so you'd probably not even get that satisfaction) but my head would say fuck it and dust myself off and thank myself lucky that I found out it's a shit company after just the year.

I would take a screenshot of that message and send it to her manager and everyone else at your work.

It will show her up for what she is

Do it. Make her regret that she ever messed with you.

I think I'm finding the injustice hard to move on from so brining it to their attention what she's really like would help to clear my name. That might then give me a better chance of a clear reference?

So in that case, a strongly worded appeal email along the lines of:

Dear HR Manager / Senior manager

I wish to appeal the decision made on which resulted in my dismissal from the Company and further highlight concerns with regards to remaining in your business.

1. My dismissal was unfair as you have failed to follow the legal process in dismissing someone by failing to invite me to a disciplinary hearing; giving me a right to representation and right to put forward my version of events in to the incident which happened on with . This amounts to wrongful dismissal

1. Colleague has done the following things to ensure you as a business made the decision to remove me . All of the above are entirely untrue and made up facts about me. You've therefore made a quick and rash decision to remove me from your business without considering alternatives and/ or removing . I attach a screen shot from which was sent to my person Facebook account to prove to you that she succeeded in getting me dismissed. Her behaviour is the one that should be fully investigated by the company. My dismissal was made without you fully investigated the facts in line with your own Disciplinary policy and the employment law guidelines. This is disappointing and has caused unnecessary stress and upset.

In summary, I have lost my job through no fault of my own and urge you to reconsider this position before I pursue the external legal process which will involve ACAS and hopefully some reconciliation between me and yourselves.

I will not allow my name to be tarnished and 'dismissal' on my record after working so hard for over 12 months achieving x / y / z.

I await your response.

Muchas, I agree about listening to Flowery (and those others who do actually know what they're talking about) but I don't see where she's advised to drop the idea.

And absolutely do not follow the advice to send the screenshot to everyone at the workplace, you want to rise above not sink to her level and lower

You need to take it further. It's hard to find future employment when you've been dismissed. You've been unfairly dismissed, don't let them jeopardise your career! Take the advice from ACAS, get something in writing to your ex employer most senior person outlining that you are taking legal action the reasons whY. You don't have to take this all the way to a tribunal but you do need to show that you won't just be disposed of for no reason. And definitely include the Facebook screenshot. What a bunch of twats.

If you don't want to go the whole way and peruse a claim, but want some closure, is it worth writing to the directors, or whoever is top, stating everything that has happened, from her behaviour after your fathers death to her getting you fired after she had made an error and the fb screenshot, saying company policy has very obviously not been followed, that you have been fired solely off the back of your manager going for a coffee with this employee and her saying you've said things, with no investigation into the truth behind this and no chance to put your side, very clearly not a fair dismissal, and you want them to be aware of this in their company.

Get decent representation, then screw them for every penny you can. They deserve it.

The legalities aside (for which I have no specialist knowledge) I just don't think I could rest, knowing that this woman had got away with such a low-life trick. And as others have mentioned, you're going to have to explain this episode on your CV. Plus, at the very least, you might be protecting others in the future from having your experience, if this company realise, to their cost, that their ham-fisted manner of dealing with this has had repercussions.

I don't think scaremongering op is helpful in the slightest. Regarding a reference the company would be stupid to put on anything related to the dismissal and op can preempt this by speaking to them first with a "I trust there will be no mention of the breach of contract over the circumstances of my dismissal made by yourselves in a future employment reference" and give HRs details as a referee. And regarding the 'episode on a cv', well, of course op won't be writing that they were dismissed on a cv, at interview or on the covering letter op could say something like "it became apparent after only a few months that the company and role weren't quite what I'd expected and hoped for, but I decided to give it a real chance and stayed but after a year I decided to cut my losses" - not entirely untruthful.