Employer has refused informal request for flexible working

[Wharm14]

I've returned to work full time (reluctantly due to finances) after maternity leave and have been juggling childcare by working four days a week and taking one day a week holiday. My husband is currently not working after finishing studying and so far hasn't been able to get a job, he looks after our 16 month old DS one day a week and DS is in nursery the other three, because my husband was at college two days a week and needed to study on the other day. We need to give four weeks notice to drop nursery days and we are desperately hoping DH has a job to then.
My lovely boss approved holiday one day a week until the end of our holiday year in July but he has sadly got a new job and I had to apply for flexible working with my new boss, who is also new to the company so has no context of what has happened previously.
I sent an exploratory email to my new boss requesting a discussion about flexible working, outlining my request to do compressed hours, 4 days in 5, using my four hour daily commute to make up the other day. He met me today and told me he's spoken to HR and been advised I can't do this due to H&S and data protection reasons. I accepted this in the meeting but went away and found out that there are very clearly only 8 reasons hey can refuse a request and these two aren't on the list!
Does anyone have any advice how I tackle this without ticking off my new boss?
I need to work full time for the money but if DS has to do four days in nursery that will kill us financially. DH's response earlier was that he would look after DS and get a part time job but I'm hoping the other mummies on here understand why that pisses me off too and that DH needs to step up..... but thats probably a whole other thread!

To be honest I would say that's unworkable for the reasons they have stated. We certainly wouldn't have any staff carrying out work for us on their commute for the reasons they have given.

If you put it in informally then I don't think they are obliged to handle it as they would a formal request (so meetings to discuss your proposal etc) so Id do it formally as a next step but even then they can easily make their reasoning fit into at least 2 of the 8 reasons.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I always get a seat on the train as I live so far out of London and am surrounded by other commuters who are also all working on the train as well, it's common practice for London commuters.
I'll have to compose a suitable reply that politely states my case again I think.

If he'd taken the time to read the policy and use one of the eight reasons available to him, I would understand but H&S and data protection are not on the list!
The job I do isn't too secret, I've glanced over people's shoulders and read far more secretive stuff than I would be dealing with on a daily basis

Unfortunately op I agree with the others as in was informal it doesn't have to meet the criteria for rejection. You could make a formal request but be careful as mentioned up thread it seems very likely they will be able to reject the formal proposal on one of the mandated reasons and you can only make one formal application a year. As your request has been informally rejected I would look at what else you could do and ask if you can make another informal proposal. All my team have some degree of flexible working but no one compressed hours for the reasons above -unfortunately it causes resentment and makes managing shared work too hard.

The "list" doesnt have to be exhaustive of every possible reason, so H&S and data protection could come under detrimental costs (extra security for instance or insurance to cover you working on a train) or performance or quality. Not to mention I bet if they sought advice from ACAS Id be quite surprised if they didnt mention the H&S aspect themselves and H&S issues would of course of an perfectly acceptable reason despite it not being itemised on the list of 8.

As it was an informal request they are not obliged to handle it as a statutory request so no need to refer to any specific reason, although again IMO their reasons are perfectly fine and very sensible.

Why is it a problem for your dh to work part time and why should he step up?

Hi! I applied for part time work after the birth of dd2. They refused for a ridulous reason. Basically they didn't want another part timer. It was more convenient for them to have a full timer. Anyway- they failed to come up with a reason that they could prove me being part time would be detrimental to the bussiness. They failed to demonstrate they had considered all possibilities. I took them to a tribunal and won! There were some other unfortunate issues too- harrassment,bullying and refusal to allow me to work In a role of equal status to the one I had before mat leave and letting the mat leave cover keep my job ( turns out manager was sleeping with her) but anyway- my point- they have to have a really good reason not To let you go part time and be able to explain how it would be detrimental and prove they have explored all possible solutions to allow your request. Sp x

I'm not sure I understand this, your suggestion was to use the four hours you would spend commuting, on four days of the week, working to count as the 'extra hours' to make up for not coming in one day a week?

In your boss's shoes, I'm not sure that I would have gone for that, to be fair.

I see that it is tough on you, especially until your DH gets a new hob, but that isn't always going to be easy. Especially, it always seems, exactly when you need a job, it just the time that it takes to get one. What is his industry like, how likely is he to get one with decent package and hours?

I don't think many employers would allow you to count work on your commute as part of your contracted work hours. Can you not work longer days at work instead. I.e. 10 hour days instead of 8 hour ones.
Your DH could do pick ups and drop offs to keep your childcare fees the same?

I'd be pretty outraged if a colleague wAs allowed to do what you were asking. I work four days a week and get paid eighty percent. That's life.

Cut your nursery to the minimum allowed, normally 2 half days and let your dh look after your ds until he gets a job
Then it him back in the nursey when you need a full time place

As others have said, I think they have informally declined your informal request to work longer days by including your commuting time as "work time". As a manager I, too, would decline this - as they have advised, the train is not a suitable environment in which to carry out your particular work processes for security reasons. I would accept you being in the office for longer hours, and many of my colleagues do this.

However, if you think working on the train is a feasible option, then you can make a formal request - and see what they have to say in their formal response.

I agree that at least part of the solution should be to cut the nursery to a minimum. You only need two days. Study could be done at evenings and weekends. How mush studying does he have for a two day a week course?

Data protection is getting a whole lot stricter and working on a train could open up a whole can of worms.

What about working 4 long days?

H & S Also valid as could cause u stress H & S isnt just physical stuff.

Is data protection getting stricter? Not aware of any changes to the law

It's not just that though is it - I presume you don't sit on a train for two whole hours but that time includes walk / wait at station / transfer to tube or walk the other end etc? I used to have a 90 minute commute of which only 55 mins was sitting on the train.

You put in an informal request, therefore the procedure and set 8 reasons aren't relevant.

Make a proper formal flexible working request and they'll no doubt respond accordingly, and will easily be able to fit those concerns into at least one of the 8 reasons.

Stealth Polar Bear - yes, GDPR coming in next year.

Thanks both will look into it

Wow, I'm glad you lot aren't my boss! 😂 thanks for the replies, obviously there's more details to this than I can share on here but I'll take your comments on board whilst we figure out the next step. Fingers crossed DH gets the job he's gone for cause that will change our situation a bit and perhaps I can just go 0.8 which would be easier for everybody.

So you've made an informal request yet expect them to stick to the formal route/responses?!

However - there is no way I'd let anyone count their commute as part of their working day for compressed hours! Are you proposing to use public wi fi to do your job (assuming it's working)? Because that's probably part of the data protection issue, along with phone calls and someone reading the screen/paperwork. That proposal is in no way comparable to using holiday allowance weekly, which was presumably a temporary solution anyway.

I hope you manage to sort something out but I really think the commute idea is a complete non-starter, sorry!