Are nurseries bad for young children's emotional development?

[OldieMum]

The Guardian has made this a front-page issue today and it also has a long, and thoughtful article by Madeleine Bunting, here Both stories report on a growing body of evidence suggesting that children under 2 in group daycare (ie not childminders, grandparents or nannies) show signs of being less co-operative and more aggressive later on, even though they may have better cognitive skills. Children over 2 seem more clearly to benefit
from group care, perhaps because they are interacting more with other children by then. Under 2, they mainly interact with staff, who do not pay them enough individually-tailored attention (Bunting talks about an 'emotionally bland' kind of interaction). DD (18 months) goes to a small nursery three days a week, so I have a strong personal interest in all this. What are other people's observations about the impact of daycare on their children? I feel very positive about it. DD gets a lot of attention from the staff and she loves going there.

I havent read the article but just from personal experience I dont see how babies dont get affection at day nurseries. My son started going at about 16 months and he was in the baby room. the staff were very affectionate, I cant see how it is any different from a nanny, childminder or granny tbh. Just my experience

One big problem she mentions is the high turnover of staff many nurseries (30-40%, I assume she means per annum). Luckily, this is not the case in dd's nursery.

haven't read it, just glanced over it but the findings are completely the opposite of my experiences, I have 2 well adjusted, happy, cooperative (on the whole!) dds who've been in daycare since 7 mths old for 3 days a week and I wouldn't change any of it, and the children I know (anecdotally, of course) who have poor social skills are those who haven't had any experience of being cared for in groups

Well, it's hard to counter research with anecdotes, but my children went to nurseries in the mornings from babyhood. They were with me or my parents in the afternoons. I thought that was a good balance given that I was working. They are now 6 and 9 and are very happy, well-adjusted and well-behaved children (honest). They are both very empathetic and moved easily. Obviously I haven't done the control experiment but I find it hard to imagine that they could have developed any better if I had been at home with them. I know it sounds as though I am being defensive, these discussions always do, but I can honestly say I don't feel one iota of guilt, ever.

I still believe that the quality of the interaction and the general atmosphere of the nursery is the key feature.

I see what you mean oldiemum about high staff turnover, but I was lucky also that 'our' nursery seemed to keep staff for years!

you dont sound defensive tamum and totally agree why should you feel guilty

Oldiemum, haven't yet had time to read the articles but will do so tonight. However I have been aware of this evidence and I do find it worrying/guilt inducing. In my heart of hearts I DO believe it would be better for my kids to be in a more home based environment for the first two years. However, I send them both (7 months and 2 and a half) to nursery 3 days a week. Why? Because it is convenient; the nursery has a good reputation and my experience of it is positive; because it seems prohibitively difficult to find a good childminder (I know people do manage it, but 'the system' seemed to defeat me, and it seems so much more complicated trying to find one individual to suit us rather than just going along with the nursery 'deal' ).
I do feel that ds1 has really only positively started to benefit from the nursery environment since he was about 2 (which would fit with the research), although he has always been happy and well cared for.
Arrggh. I feel horribly guilty now - better go and see ds2 and give him his lunchtime breastfeed

Mwah mwah Fio

I hate reading things like that - it's unerving.

My 13mo goes to nursery two days a week and my instinct says he's very happy and I'm very pleased with it. Outside of nursery, he is healthy and seems socially confident. He's only clingy when he's very tired.

He did start off at a childminder, from about 8m but never settled in particularly well and it just never felt quite right.

Are my instincts wrong?

So sending him to nursery feels l

Sorry don't know what theta bit at the end is about.

I think if you find good childcare, stick with it.

Personally I've gone down the childminder route, because that's what I found and she's been excellent, but I'm sure my two would have flourished as much as my nephew has in nursery.

Oh, and one thing I like about my childminder is that there's quite a group atmosphere and loads of group activities and a wide network of little mates and carers!

One other thing I've noticed that might be relevant- do any of you recognise the feeling that when you're a child and you play with your cousins it's completely different from playing with friends? We used to get much more giggly and wound-up because we were so relaxed in each others' company having known each otherfrom birth more or less. If you don't know what I'm talking about then ignore the next bit...

My ds, now 9, has a friend who was a baby at nursery with him, and their younger siblings were also babies at nursery together. They are all at different schools now, but still see each other fairly regularly. Their mother and I were remarking the other day how when they play together it is just like cousins, completely relaxed. I honestly believe that they've all bonded in a way that would never have happened had they not known each other really well, on a daily basis, from babyhood.

The point is we all have to make difficult decisions re our children and sometimes we don't have a choice, many mothers have to work. It's a balance. In a straight choice there is no doubt in my mind that children are better off being with their mothers than in a nursery all things being equal. However we are not in an ideal world and a good nursery is better than being with a mother who is struggling and under pressure due to financial problems, lack of contact with other adults, feeling they need to work, etc. I don't think this kind of research really helps mothers, we all feel guilty if we work and have to leave our children and we feel guilty if we don't work!

I can only see benefits for dd. She is our only child and she gets to see other children in the nursery, even if she is too young to play with them much. The staff are loving and they give the children a lot of attention. I'm also not sure how effective I would be at giving her full-time care for the next few years. I enjoy very much the 2 week days she and I spend together, but part of my enthusiasm comes from the fact that this time is limited and therefore very precious. However, I know that this nursery is unusual (12 children, low staff turnover at dh's workplace) and Bunting's point is that it is usually very expensive to provide this kind of care. In fact, she says that the Govt has begun to realise that subsidising good-quality care costs about the same as providing longer maternity leave.

Tamum, I feel EXACTLY like this when I see dd1 and her mates - I described it to her friend Isabella's mum as 'quasi-sibling' the other day.

I do understand what you mean tamum. i sometimes think my dd is like that with her classmates because alot of children with sn have no inhibitions so dont care what others think and are just completely natural and bond easily, if that makes sense. i am in waffle mode today!

It's at this point I always grumpily point out that freelancers get virtually no maternity provision at all from our lovely welfare state and many of us are forced back to work within weeks.

I have to disagree daisy - I think this kind of research is REALLY IMPORTANT and has generally suffered from the kind of neglect that children's issues in general get in this country. What could be more vital than identifying how best to bring up happy, well-adjusted kids? Being discomfited by the results is no reason not to ask the question...
However I also think there are nurseries and nurseries (and childminders and childminders too!) and that the amount of time relative to parent time is also important.

I decided to send DS to nursery because I wanted him to have more interaction with other children as we don't have any family near and the 2 children in the group are considerably older than him. We needed to try several nurseries until we found THE one. As a baby it was fantastic as he become very sociable, now that he is the older of his group he may not be getting as much attention as before but being an only child probably that's not too bad as he is learning to share attention with other children.

I took this step because my niece was minded by her granny and having had very little contact with other children, when she got to school she found it very difficult to make friends or defend herself (though she is brilliant with adults).

I believe if you find a nursery where the staff turnover is minimum and there is a caring environment, the children will be fine. DS loves his key worker so much that for a time when you asked him where was mum and I was not present he will point her (yeah, it made me a bit jealous but it was a reasurance that DS was getting a lot of love )

This research is encouraging the Government to put the brakes on its policy of getting mothers back into work quickly and to make a commitment to 12 months paid maternity leave in its next manifesto, so I think it's very important. And we shouldn't shrink from evidence that makes us uncomfortable, surely?

But not STATE FUNDED maternity leave grrrrr

elliot the point I was making is that the research only tells us what we already know. It's the same as the breast/bottle debate, we all know what is best but if it's not possible for whatever reason for a mother not to work or breast feed then I don't think telling her she's not doing the best for her child is particularly helpful.

No, that's very bad, MI.

anyway stop blaming the mothers all the time, why not blame the dads aswell

runs to hide...

Actually, the research doesn't tell us what we already know. The assumption underlying Sure Start is that daycare would have an overall positive benefit for low-income children. Researchers are only now realising that this does not seem to be case, because of these concerns about emotional impact.