Advantages of Going Back to Work Early

[Judy1234]

Coming out of several other threads this is interesting. As I said elsewhere with my first child I went back to work after 2 weeks. I always work up until I went into labour. I think the longest I took off was 5 week with any of the 5. You don't often get parents writing about returning to work quickly so I thought just setting out some of the advantages might be helpful for those who can't decide how much time to take off at home. I don't want this to be seen as me saying all parents should both be back at their desks within 2 weeks however; just food for thought particularly with the new paternity leave rights coming in next April.

1. The baby does not have a huge wrench when you suddenly return at 6 months or a year. At 2 weeks she can get used to her good childcare from the father, relative, nanny or whatever so has continuity and no shock to the system of a later return.

1. You don't have time to get out of the swing of work so it's all less disrupting to your life.

1. You can establish a breastmilk expressing system early on without worrying about how to manage breastfeeding when going back at 3 months.

1. Both parents are equally as involved with the children. The pattern at home isn't established that the mother does everything to do with the baby. The mother isn't better than the father at child things. You may get a more involved husband.

1. You only lose 10% of pay in the few weeks you take off.

1. You don't lose touch with work, lose promotion, position etc.

1. If I'm allowed say it, being at home with babies can be boring (not for everyone, I know) so you can skip all that and concentrate on the fun cuddles bit.

1. You inconvenience an employer or your customers less. No one will like me for saying this but in the real world fathers and mothers taking leave is hard to manage. I can say this having had to manage maternity leave for two of my nannies over the years.

1. You may find the physical recovery from birth easier in an office than managing small children and domestic work at home with heavy lifting, toddlers who kick you, heavy rubbish to put out, floors to scrub etc.I certainly found sitting still at a desk, time to rest, relax, get drinks at my leisure helped me get back to normal. Dressing in office clothes too helps get you back to being your normal self. I loved leaving behind the clothes at home covered in baby sick etc.

10. Sometimes it aids mental health particularly if you hate being home with a baby.

xenia always upsets people.

If you want a laugh at her expense put 'xenia' into Google uk pages.

Sorry, xenia - very childish of me, I know, but it was only pointed out to me today and I'm still smirking.

"I don't think SAHM are uneducated. Quite the converse. When I was asking my brother what was the point in educating his daughter beyond A levels if she'll become a housewife like her mother he said because men like him want Oxbridge educated professional wives who then give up work, that it's more of a status symbol, that she's sacrificed all that for her man and the family and that the finishing school good cook 18 year old just doesn't cut the mustard any more in the showing off my wife as possession stakes which so many men play."

Xenia - the circles you move in and the people you mix with (based on the above quote) sound vile. I appear to live in a parrallel universe to you and TF for that!

mozhe - Dara quoted that particular research in response to Xenia who is persistently suggesting that her model of parenting - leaving her baby with a nanny at 2 weeks - is less damaging to a baby than that baby's mother staying at home to be its main carer.

Dara has already pointed out the exceptions, when the family is disadvantages.

Can you both not accept that there are plenty of mothers out there caring for their babies who might be the best carers for their babies?

We're not all riddled with ill mental health.

It's very sad that there are mothers out there who do suffer depression and in some cases, returning to work is the right thing to do. For others that might not be the case, for 2 reasons. Perhaps they could recover by utilising some other kind of support mechanism. Secondly, they might have a 2 month old baby and their only choice of childcare might be a bad nursery.

Argh - no time to write the above better. I hope it makes sense.

I would like to second Alderyn's comments. I am a SAHM with two dss and have to say that despite the routine and mundaneness of it all I find it absolutely the most fulfilling and fun thing I have ever done. I love being with my kids and I love the fact that I know them so well. I do not believe there is anyone on the planet who would look after my kids better than I do.

Wopw i can't believe how much negativity Xenia attracts. It's wonderful to hear from such an intelligent woman and an experienced mother. Plese keep posting - it's been a breath of fresh air for me and has renewed my interest in mumsnet.
I don't see the debate as working mums v non-wokring mums- the idea seemibng to be being that SAHMs put kkids first and workers put career first - that is not my experience. I work both because i have to and because i like to. Don';t love my job particularly - but i like being financially independent. But since having klids and getting to know my neigtbours through school etc, half my friends are now SAHMs. There is no antagonism between us at all! We all agree that we are doing the best we can for our kids. And that life is hard/parenting is hard/wonderful/working can be boring/can be fun blah blah.

'I don't think SAHM are uneducated. Quite the converse. When I was asking my brother what was the point in educating his daughter beyond A levels if she'll become a housewife like her mother he said because men like him want Oxbridge educated professional wives who then give up work, that it's more of a status symbol, that she's sacrificed all that for her man and the family and that the finishing school good cook 18 year old just doesn't cut the mustard any more in the showing off my wife as possession stakes which so many men play."

See, I wanted to believe you were a troll at the outset for a reason.

I am saddened that people like this exist in the world.

I just hope better for my daughters.

Expat, your daughters WILL have better than that attitude in life because they have you for a mum and they would give any weak chinned, musty-smelling, tweed-clad hooray-henry twits a VERY wide berth, wouldn't they!

Xenia likes to talk in extremes because it gains attention; most people live in the middle somewhere....it's not black and white all the time....many mums are SAHMs for a few years while their children are young, then become WOHMs, then may go part time when the demands of supporting children lessen; it's different solutions for different times in our lives, unless we think in terms of 'status' which is obviously what a very small section of society do and the thing about them is, they just can't see how laughable they are.

It's about balance, something this thread lacks because it's what the OP lacks.

I'd hope they'd have the sense to realise that good people are not status symbols, and that anyone who treats them as such is nothing but scumbag, no matter how much money they have.

Revise to read: that PEOPLE are not status symbols, regardless of their nature.

I'm one of those pessimists, but even I am going to pretend that Xenia invents this tripe just to wind people up.

Having admitted to my own pessimism, however, I'll go so far as to say that any man such as this who gets within 10 feet of either of my daughters had better watch out.

Doubt that will happen, though, as we are peasants.

another 'discussion' started on a Friday that I missed out on

It is a real eye opener to think that anyone in the world thinks that an Oxbridge educated SAHM for a wife is a status symbol! LOL

I wonder how much kudos would be gained by an Oxbridge educated nanny? I wonder if anyone has one?

i have been thinking about why i felt the way i did when i read the initial post. why it bothered me. and i have come to the conclusion that it was because i could see no conflict.

i have done work and sahm and both had conflict and were and continue to be hard decisions i saw nothing of that expressed, too much certainty sort of got to me

I've heard of Oxbridge-educated strippers and prostitutes, who funded their studies through harlotry, so don't see where Oxbridge-educated nanny would be much of a stretch.

Perhaps there is a gap in the market:

Oxbridge educated nannies, cleaners, dog walkers, etc.

So the Kensington set can get one over each other.

Can just hear conversations round the Cheyne Walk dinner table "Well our concierge is Oxbridge educated actually".

I completely agree Tonton with your point: surely this isn't really a debate about who puts their children first. I believe everybody on this board is doing the absolute best they can for their children according to their own personal circumstances.
For most people, I would imagine, working is not a lifestyle choice, its a financial necessity. Its is also, lets not forget, a right that women had to fight long and hard to get. I doubt any of us here would say that women shouldn't be, say, doctors, nurses, teachers, scientists, lawyers, accountants etc. Anything they are capable of being.

There is a problem though. Business to a very large extent requires employees who can work full time, without long breaks. That does not always sit well with maternity leave and/or flexible working. The problem is exacerbated the further up the career ladder women go/wish to go.

Regardless of what any of us think of Xenia's views on her life/work balance, the fact is that getting pregnant 22 years ago when (I assume) she was still training or newly qualified, was not a careerist move. And thats putting it mildly. If she wanted to compete on equal terms with her peers, both male and female, she had no choice really but to work up to the last minute and get back as soon as possible.

Things have changed since then. Women are now entitled to much more maternity leave and pay.
Nevertheless, if you want to get on in a job I wonder how wise it is to take all the leave you are entitled to? What about people who get pregnant whilst still on maternity leave?
Equally, if you want a top job, how realistic is it to try and do it part time?
Or indeed, and I whisper this quietly, how fair on either your fellow employees and your employer?

Obviously there are jobs where it works perfectly well, but I believe there are others where it doesn't (and I'd be grateful for a debate on that point because I'd love to work out what sort of job I can do thats compatible with my life!) That may change in the future if more women with children go into those sorts of jobs. But in the meantime, if a woman wants to pursue one of those jobs, she will have no choice but to make the sort of childcare choices that Xenia and many like her make.

I have wondered the same thing pollyp- what job is compatible with my life?! I'm lucky in that for the last 6 years I've worked 4 or 5 day weeks but have recently chanced upon what MIGHT be a workable (ie relatively lucrative and the boss is v faimly friendly) freelance option. But if this doesn';t work out then it's back to a big company with inflexible working practices (mine is a young incustry with with mainly 20 & 30-something skngles of older men with SAHMs). Masybe I'll move to a nordic country where the law seems to be more on parents side when it comes to work?!

Xenia ? do you actually read posts before you respond to them? I didn?t say that you thought sahms are uneducated. I said that you behave on mn as if you think mn ?is populated by a bunch of under-educated oppressed sahms waiting for your enlightenment.? That?s a very different thing. Your brother sounds vile. As does your question that you put to him ? how can you possibly claim to be a feminist and a liberal when you come out with shit like that?

Tonton - I think a move might be the only solution!! As far as I can see, working mothers are between a rock and hard place in this country. Luckily I'm quite fond of pickled harring (think thats what they eat in Sweden anyway)

Everybody else - don't rise to Xenia!!! I'm chosing to assume she's largely baiting us to see who comes up flapping. And this this thread has certainly got me thinking.

herring, even.
doh

pollypeachum - I don't see how Xenia could have made any other choice but the one she did if she wanted to succeed in the career she had chosen. My problem with Xenia is not the choices she made.

My problem is that she belittles any woman who makes a different choice to hers, completely disregarding the choices and non-choices that mothers in this real world are faced with.

On top of that she has the audacity to claim mothers who look after their babies and don't work, or mothers who put their babies in childcare after they have formed an attachment, are more likely to cause damage their babies than a mother who returns to work full-time 2 weeks after the birth.

It sounds as though Xenia left her baby with a devoted nanny and that Xenia herself spent lots of evening time nursing and snuggling with her baby. It sounds like the arrangement worked well for her. She sounds happy with the way things worked out for her. I cannot understand why she needs to validate her choices by belittling others.

Mohze, you have honestly never ever encountered a woman who works who feels conflicted, misses her kids and wants to find another way to live? Blimey, for a woman in your job, you don't get out much do you Mohze? I know and have known DOZENS. Some of them don't even have kids. I've met them plenty of them in the workplace. It's why the new laws which allow women to request flexible working are such a hot topic. You'll also find plenty of women who want a better home/work balance on Mumsnet. Outside of ivory towers, they are all over the place. Even women who absolutely love their work often have children and then reassess their lives (and continue to do so as their children's needs change). I'd call that normal.
Surely as any specialist in mental health should be aware of studies like these?
report on Penelope Leach-led study

And this

interesting report US based research

Yes, nannies are the best alternative care for very young babies who need full-time care, but get real. The vast, vast majority of women could not afford to employ a fulltime nanny even if they wanted one. So if you are encouraging the parents of very young babies to go back to full time work, you are suggesting they swap care by the mother for what is quite likely to be less good carer and a more stressful situation for the baby. Not everyone has a choice about going back to full time work very early when they have young babies, but very, very few women do it by choice - and that's a fact. Yes, of course high quality nurseries are great places for many children, and there are some amazing childminders out there, but would you honestly have gone back to full time working knowing that your earnings would only stretch to putting your two week old/five week old in a busy, overstretched city nursery with a high staff turnover? THAT is the reality for a lot more women than exist in your world of city bonuses and full time nannies. You have the money to cushion your children very nicely from the effects of your working full time from two weeks old or whatever. Of course wealth confers advantages. But don't you realise how extreme your lives are?
As for the idea that a woman who chooses to spend part of her 40+ year working life looking after her children full time need not be educated, well, even you must see that is ridiculous. It's very very rare for women to give up work permanently and not to work before having children (often for more than ten years before having children). Also, don't children need educated carers?

Aderyn, I wonder if the issues are becoming muddled by such an emotive thread.
I'm a SAHM and I don't feel belittled by anything that she has said on here so far.
I also don't think that what she has said here can be summarised as "mothers who look after their babies and don't work, or mothers who put their babies in childcare after they have formed an attachment, are more likely to cause damage their babies than a mother who returns to work full-time 2 weeks after the birth".
On the first point, about SAHMs causing damage to their chldren - well I would imagine that some do and most don't. There are good and bad ones. luckily for me I'm sure I'm good so I don't take anything she may say personally.
On the second point about damage, I do not read her comments as judgemental. As far as I can see, all she said, in the context of going back to work early, was that returning after 2 weeks didn't cause a wrench to the child at that time. Our children will all experience wrenches - in Xenia's case, when the nanny leaves; in my case when I went back to work at 5 months; in the case of a 100% SAHM when the child goes to school. I don't think Xenia was claiming to have avoided inflicting that sort of wrench on her child, merely in effect that she had postponed it.

Xenia and Mozhe seem very passionate about their work so that it is almost like a hobby for them. Most of us have jobs which pay the bills and some of us might enjoy it at times. but if we won the lottery we'd jack it in.
When I was on maternity leave with my first, she was a very easy baby and I had lots of time on my hands. But I wasn't for a minute bored or itching to get back to work. I read all the books I'd never had time to, visited friends, exercised. Found plenty to do. For Xenia and the like they seem to want to put work into that gap. Each to their own but work will one day disappear too.
Also normal mortals have someone filling their maternity leave at work so going back to work would not be an option at 2 weeks and would undoubtedly inconvenience your employer. But that's in the real world not Xenia world.

It would have been massively more convenient for my employer had I gone back to work at 2 weeks instead of 5 months. Yes a locum filled my post, but the locum did not have the experience of the transactional work that I was doing to fill my shoes 100%.
It all depends on the sort of job you're doing.