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Original poster

Holiday leave

17 replies

winnertakesitall · 09/07/2014 12:09

Hi, a quick question. I'm am due to start working for a new startup business soon.

I will be doing 4 days a week, but only during school hours.

The have calculated my leave based on my hours, not on the number of days worked- and this works out at a rather low (IMO!) annual leave entitlement of 18 days. Is this the correct way of calculating it?

Secondly, if the office shuts down over Christmas can the make me take annual leave for the closure or not?

Any advice appreciated!

TIA.

OP posts:
manchestermummy · 09/07/2014 12:15

No idea if the calculation is correct but we have to take leave over the Christmas closure but only the days (hours) you work iyswim. Same for DH; we're both in the public sector. My employer is quite charitable Hmm though as we only have to take three days regardless of the timing of the shutdown (some years might technically necessitate 4/5 depending on exactly which day of the week Christmas falls.

Lonecatwithkitten · 09/07/2014 12:57

Are the 18 days in addition to those taken for Christmas close down?
Yes they can give you leave in hours.
Yes they can tell you when to take some of your leave.
Statutory leave is 28 days (5.6 weeks), but this can be inclusive of bank holidays.
This would give you pro rata 22.4 days, could they have already made some adjustment for Christmas or bank holidays?

LIZS · 09/07/2014 13:03

If you are only working say 5 hours a day, have they allocated you 90 hours or 135 (based on 7.5 hour day full time). Do FT staff get the Christmas break over and above their Annual leave allocation or do they make deductions ? Do you work in school holidays ?

Schooltrip · 09/07/2014 13:09

I think they've done it wrong but I'm no expert.

When I worked similar hours I had 4/5 annual leave (days) what everyone else had. So say everyone else had 25 days I got 20 days. As I worked short days each of my days leave was 5 hours. But the actual hours is irrelevant really, a days leave is a days leave.

Middleagedmotheroftwo · 09/07/2014 13:13

It sounds fair to me.

If you want the day off, you'd only need to book the hours you actually work - so a full time person would need to book (say) 7.5 hours off, you'd only need to book (say) 5 hours.
The employer will have/should have worked it out on a pro rata basis. Eg, if a full time employer gets 24 days hol, and you work two thirds of the hours a full time person does, you will get two thirds of the holidays. But as I say, you won't need as many hours to have effectively the same amount of time off.

And most employers who shut down over Christmas/New Year require employees to take a number of days out of their annual leave for this. Some go as far as enforcing particular weeks for summer hols too - particularly true in manufacturing industry (though probably not as common as it used to be).

Chocotrekkie · 09/07/2014 13:16

My leave is calculated in hours. I work 3 full days so I get 3/5 of the full time leave and 3/5 of the bank holiday allowance.

As I work Monday's and most bank hols are Monday's I don't have enough to take them all. The office is closed on bank hols so I can't even work them.

Still with hr - think I am going to have to work extra days and have bank hols as TOIL.

Original poster
winnertakesitall · 09/07/2014 13:24

So (confusingly)-

  • I will be working 4 days a week 9.15-2.55 one week (to allow me time to go and collect my son from school),
  • and 9.15-2.55 three weekdays plus a 9am-4.30pm weekend day the next week alternating!

It is a start up company, the 2 directors (who own the business and therefore can take however much leave they like!)- and me!

I will be working the school holidays.

Christmas 'leave' needing to be taken has not yet been decided.

This is the first year of the business trading, so no precedent yet set.

The boss is (some may say awkwardly- but I am excited about being part of this venture) a friend of mine- and she is currently devising a contract. I don't know where she got the 18 days from maybe gov.uk?- and this was told to me verbally so not yet 'set in stone' effectively. I would of course prefer it if it was calculated as me working 4 days a week instead of 23(ish) hours!!!

Of course- extremely lucky to have a job to correspond with school hours- just a bit daunted as to how I am going to work this (have previously worked full time with a child in daycare, so less of a concern!). If it is 18 days then c'est la vie- and I will make it work!

Would like it to be 'correct' from the start.

OP posts:
Original poster
winnertakesitall · 09/07/2014 13:25

Some x-posts, maybe I should request my leave in hours then instead of in days...?

OP posts:
LIZS · 09/07/2014 13:29

yes it needs to be in hours as you are not in a regular working pattern.

Original poster
winnertakesitall · 09/07/2014 13:35

Ah... when I go onto gov.uk and do it for the hourly rate it works out at approx 23 days when calculated on a 5.5 hour day, which is a lot more of what I expected.

I'll have a chat with my boss and present this an alternative, as this is more palatable.

Do you know if employers have to use the hourly method if their staff are working 'hours' instead of full days, or is in in their discretion?

OP posts:
Original poster
winnertakesitall · 09/07/2014 13:40

but... I suppose if public holidays are deducted within this 23 days, I'm probably back down at about 18 days again. GGGAAAAHHH! So confusing!

OP posts:
Rockchick1984 · 09/07/2014 15:36

It shouldn't make a difference if it's done in hours or days, as long as it's always done the same way.

If you work 5 hours a day and have 10 days holiday allowance (simply to show with easy figures). 2 days holiday would give you 8 days remaining. If it's done in hours you get 50 hours holiday, 2 days away gives you 40 hours remaining, which works out at 8 days. If someone else works 10 hours a day and gets 10 days holiday they would get 100 hours. Take 2 days hol (20 hours) leaves them 80 hours, or 8 days. Honestly it's no different!

idontlikealdi · 09/07/2014 15:42

I work three days a week and get 15 days. Full time I got 25 so if they have an annual allowance of 20 (legal minimum) it sounds right.

Its still 4 and a bit weeks leave a year which is pretty good.

I've never mentioned bank holidays although technically they should be pro-ratad

LIZS · 09/07/2014 16:22

No it shouldn't make a difference overall but I'd still get it in hours, then if you take off a Week A it is 22 hours to deduct but for a Week B it is 24 (or thereabouts)

flowery · 09/07/2014 16:57

Whether it's calculated and expressed in hours or days, it should add up to the same.

Statutory minimum entitlement is 5.6 weeks. So expressed as days, that is 22.4 for someone working 4 days a week.

If you work, say, 5 hours a day, so 20 hours a week, 5.6 weeks is 112 hours. Which for someone who works 5 hours a day, is 22.4 days. The total is the same.

However if it's calculated in hours it should be expressed in hours, and vice versa. It makes no sense calculating it in hours then trying to convert it back into days, which seems to have led to the error. Either do it in hours or days, not both!

flowery · 09/07/2014 17:00

Sorry, posted without refreshing the thread! And yes if you're not working the same pattern all the time, it needs to be in hours, both calculated and expressed that way.

Original poster
winnertakesitall · 09/07/2014 18:40

Thanks all! We are slightly blind leading the blind so this is great!

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