Just been offered a job in Devon. Life changing decision. Help!!

[tigermoth]

Its a civil service job, probably based at Plymouth (with monthly visits to London ....)

So much is going through my mind about this. I could easily clog up all the active convos with my worries and queries. ie

Moving to be near extended family in Devon, leaving London friends behind - pros and cons?

New schools for boys, ds1 to leave grammar school for a high performing community college -pros and cons?

Relocating from London to small Devon town, pros and cons?

Leaving dh with the children in London for a few months while I start new job in Devon - pros and cons?

Renting out house in London while we rent in Devon, pros and cons?

Oh and lots of other things.....

But, firstly, as I haven't yet accepted the job properly, and haven't agreed terms and conditions, can I ask the following:

The salary scale: the starting salary is too low for me to accept the job. I need to be on or near the top of the salary band - how do I negotiate this? My present salary, including London Weighting, (I work in the public sector)is slightly higher then the top of the advertised salary.

Do you think I could ask for a relocation grant?

I need to play for time - for lots of reasons, it would be better if I could start just after christmas, if they want me to be working in Devon at least - what do I say to personnel to show I am keen but can't start in early September, which is what was talked about on the phone?

I also just want to know more about the job - strange as it may seem, I still don't know exactly what my role will be. I have only had the one 30 minute interview with the department. I have researched the department and job description thoroughly (did all that before the interview) but still feel I haven't got a clear focus on what I could actually be doing there. Is this a civil service thing?

The bigger questions - family, MIL in Devon, housing, how dh and his job fits into this - I will leave for now as I havn't formally accepted the job.

Advice on the emplyment bits would be really good though as I have to phone personnel on Monday to discuss everything and I want to be clear headed.

We relocated 4 years ago as you know.

There is a HUGE difference in wages between London and Plymouth as you know. DH took a 15 grand drop to move down here, and now is earning around half the amount he would be had we stayed in London. Don't regret that for a moment though, much prefer it down here.

His company were happy to give a relocation grant (2 grand iirc), as it made the "package" bigger - but is a cost they don't have to repeat iyswim. I think its tax free as well. One thing we didn't realise, and only found out on moving, was that his firm would recruit people from London by offering them a larger salary than the local going rate, but would then give very limited payrises for the next however many years until they were at the local rate iyswim. We didn't budget for this! (although dh has since moved firms etc which has improved things a bit). Public sector will be different of course, and more transparent, but just be warned that if you move into the top of the pay scale you may find yourself stuck there for longer than you anticipated.

I however think you should move I think 3 houses are going up for sale on our street in the next few weeks (Lovely houses if you like Edwardian). Let me know if you want me to send you the property pages each week!

oh he doesn't earn 15 grand, just his London wages would have almost doubled by now, whereas here they've gone up with inflation.

As it's civil service, are you in a union tigermoth? You might get good advice there about negotiating salary/start date etc.

tigermoth - I'm a civil servant so may be able to help a bit !

First off are you already a civil servant ? Is this a job you applied for - through a trawl or an outside recruoitment ? Is it in the same department or are you changing dep't ? Is it a level transfer - will you be same grade ? Is it a core department or an Agency ?

Starting salaries are usually negotiable - I am in an Agency and we have delegated authority to do this. Some departments have less flexibility though. For someone coming from outside if we really want them we will at least match their curent salary, and we will wait for them to come. Many people have to do a 3 mth notice period anyway.

I think your first step with HR is to ask for a lot more info - maybe ask to visit and meet the team - we do that all the time.

FWIW I would love to move to Devon - also have inlaws there - and am hatching plot to do that too !

Was it advertised as eligible for relocation allowances ?

Congratulations on the job offer. I have no advice sorry.

How would your heart feel about moving to Devon? Do you feel that your family's quality of life would improve?
Would you enjoy living next to jimjams? lol (I'm sure you would)

Sorry... only questions not answers. With regards to the school, are your boys motivated where school is concerned? If so then no problems there.

When my dad was a civil servant such a move was mooted several times (including Plymouth) before the entire office was eventually relocated out of London and a relocation package was part of the deal. Is the salary on the same pay scale as yours now , if so they should at least maintain short term and perhaps gradually phase out the London weighting so you feel no appreciable loss.

Hi Tigermoth, no time now as we're going out but I will come back to this later and post. I have experience, as you know Congrats on being offered the job! Well done.

Wow! Well done you on getting the job. Don't know any og=f the answers though... Will have a think.

congratulations Tigermoth.

My only experience is living in the country after LOndon which as you know I didn't enjoy. I would recommend going to a town or one very nearby.

Think of where the schools are. Can the kids walk to school? I find this really really important (now that we have moved to a city again..however tiny it may be) Driving kids around can be a real headache, especially if you are working full time.

Once a month in London..thank god..as there are very few decent shop down Plymouth way!!

Congratulations on the job offer tigermoth. It is lovely here, and my children love the school I think you mean . DD has just passed 4 A levels there.
Pop around for a cuppa if you come down for another recce

oh, thanks for the messages. Lots from you SW people

jimjams, I think we will have be looking at Kingsbridge/Ivybridge for now, as MIL lives that way. But I am keeping an open mind and will get back to you about plymouth - Edwardian terrace sounds lovely - we live in a Victorian terrace at the moment. Initially, if I have to move down I might be able to stay with MIL in her spare flat, now she has just (as of yesterday coincidently) moved into her own renovated flat.
I know there's a huge difference in salary levels between London and Plymouth - I have been searching the newspapers and internet since January for likely jobs and jobs that I have a chance of getting at a salary we can live are few and far between.

It's interesting that quite a few of you say I could apply for relocation expenses - and even more interesting that I might be able to start at a salary level similar to the one I am on. It's all a bit complicated as I'm not actually a civil servant. I work for a local council, have done for over 3 years so have permanent rights (I'm not employed via an agency) and our department is being restructured with possibly more salary enhancements to my team.

I really think I need to be given more info about what they could offer me. How do I say yes properly until I know what I am saying yes to? chicken and egg situation.... must dash, have to give ds1 and dh a lift somewhere...back later!

bluebeetle, I will answer your questions more fully later - thanks so much for posting

Tigermoth, Kingsbridge is a lovely area, we used to go there for our summer holidays when we were small! I moved from Cambridge to Exeter to go to uni, and now I have graduated I fully intend on staying here. The only negative for me is that the cost of living is high here in comparison to wages, but I don't know how that would compare with your current situation. However, I am more than happy to accept this as the quality of life i have down here is so much better, despite the fact that my accomodation is literally twice what it would be if I moved back home. I would also look into a relocation grant, I know that many of the jobs i have applied for will offer this, they just may not make it explicitly clear. Good luck with whatever you decide, and I may even end up as a colleage, as I have just applied for the civil service here in exeter x

Hi tigermoth.

Country life, pros, imo and e:

PROS:
slower pace of life
beautiful countryside and beaches
more house for your money
lots of decent schools
you will prob know your neighbours
fresh air
local produce etc
can be v calming living near the sea

CONS
slower pace of life might not be for you (but might be)
beaches are packed in the summer (might not matter)
it's no good having a bigger house IF you can't earn enough to live. But I think if you come from London with some equity and a smaller mortgage compared to earnings then it's likely to be absolutely fine, it wasn't for us
The cost of other things just ISN'T cheaper than London, i.e. utilities/petrol/parking/clothes/food, these are not lower ime. So bear it in mind when doing any calculations
Parochial attitudes can do your head in, well, they did mine sometimes anyway. But hey, you get crap people everywhere I guess
knowing your neighbours can spill over into extreme nosiness, which can be v irritating
mono culture (devon is 99.9% white last time I looked on their website, which was years ago though)
lack of culture/facilities although this may not bother a lot of people because the pros will make up for it
It can be very desolate and isolated in the winter

As for leaving your children for a couple of months while you settle in, although I did it for 6 months recently I absolutely 100% would NOT recommend it. It was very, very, very hard.
They missed me, I missed them (although the first week was a novelty and quite nice, the other 5.75 months were hell from that pov); dh was effectively a single parent in the week; dh and I spent most of our time on the phone moaning and having competitions as to who was having the harder time - him alone with 2 children and working ft oth, me alone working 10 hrs a day ft oth and driving for another 3 hours/day; the travelling to get to them at weekends was very hard and I just collapsed in tears at the end of it; we were all knackered all the time; ds started having night terrors, it was all awful.

In the end, I suppose it WAS worth it because I was offered the job and relocated and we're all together again and now live nearer ex dh/mil etc but had I known how hard the reality would be I wouldn't have done it in the first place. But hey, you do what you've got to do don't you?

Could you all move down but rent out your house in London so you check you all like it first? You know the house we used to rent in Kingsbridge (well, your dh knows the one)?
That was £600 a month for a big 3 bed with a hige garden, albeit 3 years ago. So the maths might well work in your favour if you were to pay rent to start with and rent out your London house. Because once you've sold in London and moved it will be very hard to go back I think. Although of course you might not want to but in your position I think I'd give it a year renting in Devon before buying. The winters can be hard too ime although my circumstances were different to yours.

But well done on the job, great stuff. I don't know anything about Ivybridge but Kingsbridge is nice.

And I guess, had my circumstances been different, i.e. had we had plenty of money/ex dh & mil nearer/decent work down there then maybe, just maybe we'd have stayed. But I think I'm prob more of a city girl and I needed to be nearer London, a John Lewis and my ex husband!

Anything else you want to know, do ask.

ok, back again.

to answer your questions, bluebeetle and others:

I am not already a civil servant - I work for a london council.

I applied for the job independently, having seen
it in The Guardian.

It is not the same department as my current one - similar post (I think) but different job title.

Can't compare the grades AFAIK - don't know how civil service grades compare to local council grades. I have only worked in the public sector for three and a bit years - before that I was a copywriter, working for ad agencies.

Just checked the website to see if it is a core department or an agency - the website is down till monday - think it's a government agency.

I definitely think I will ask to meet the London team when I phone on Monday. There is no Devon team as such.

The job is to do with communications work. I would be working on my own, reporting to the central communications team in London, hence regular London visits.

You say that some departments have less flexibility over terms and conditions. From what I've told you, do you think I can negotiate?

The recruitment ad didn't mention a relocation allowance, but did say there were lots of benefits, pension, flexi hours etc. As no relocation allowance was mentioned, is it a bit cheeky to ask for one? And if I do, how much should I ask for?

Puff, great suggestion - I will leave a message with my trade union branch on Monday - they reply to messages, you cannot speak direct - and then cross my fingers someone gets back to me immediately.

littlelamb, I know where you are coming from - and you can take that almost literally in fact, as I grew up in Cambridge, and left in my twenties. I have been in London ever since. I have visited the South Hams regularly for nearly 20 years as my husband's family live there and so we've gone to Kingsbridge most summers, too I love the hills - such a change from the fens.

WWW, so glad you saw this thread.

Well, you know my situation and got it to a tee in your answers.

I have been pricing things up on recent visits to Kingsbridge and agree, food, clothes, going out - not cheap compared to where I live now. I live in an area of SE london where cut price shops and cheap markets abound. And I think the water rates are high, too.

I will suffer the parochial attitudes ( if we come across them) in exchange for being near family - my sons will at last get to meet their second cousins (similar ages) and aunts and uncles(once removed).They mostly live in Exeter and seem very nice.

I too have been struck by the mono culture. Part of my job involves attending community events and UK white-skinned people are in a minority at many of them. When I was in Kingsbridge for their Carnival parade, I found it really odd to see so 99% white faces. My sons are used to haveing friends of different races and my oldest has really got into cool black youth culture ( as you may remember I started a thread about his clothes choice). I don't know how he will be affected if he moves - he says he is fine about it, but he is 1 year off being a teenager and I fear trouble ahead and possibly lots of recriminations about taking him away from his friends. One reason why I want to move sooner rather than later, trying to outrace against the fast approaching hormones.

and oh dear, I was SO hoping you would tell me it's ok to leave your children, and go to work in a different area.

Dh is dead against me going down without him and the boys. But I am worried that if the job goes wrong, we will have burnt all our bridges in London if we all move together - and it will be such a lot to organise all at once. It took such a fight to get the boys to decent schools here, I don't want to take them away unless I am totally sure my new job will work out.

I personally feel fine (right now) about not seeing my sons between monday to friday for a finite number of weeks (no evening homework to supervise, no exhausting routine to fit in, lots of time to watch my choice of TV programmes hurray!) I feel fine, as long as I know they are moving down eventually. But your experience and dh's warnings worry me as both of you have lived through the experience of working away from your partner - I haven't, so I may be too optimistic and naive.

Well, all that is not for now - I still don't know if the job will be one I can accept.

I live in Plymouth...work in Bodmin in cornwall and if you think Devon is parochial...!!! (am from cheltenahm/gloucester originally)

Worth trying for relocation, but suspect it may only be available for post where they have had difficulty recruiting... unless it is at an 'executive' level...in which you can probably get it easy!

I love living in Plymouth because while you are a few minutes from the city centre (and there is a big new shopping mall opening this autumn) and 'civilisation' (cinemas, theatres, gigs, bars etc etc) you are also only a few minutes drive from beaches, the moors etc so it's a bit like getting the best of both worlds. Plus near by there is Totnes for lentil-weaving moments, as well as towns like Tavistock...

As far as the mono-culture goes..Plymouth itself has got more and more multi-cultural in the 9 yrs we've been here, it used to be incredibly rare, like once or twice a year (!!) that I would see anyone who wasn't white apart from

Having read your post then tigermoth, I think the answer is don't take the job unless you're as sure as you can be that it's an ok job and that you'll all be happy with the move. You can never know 100% really but could you ask a lot more questions to try to get a better idea? Or could you take a day off and ask the new job if you could come for a day to spend some time in the department and get a feel for the place? What are other job opps like in the same area if this one turned out not to be so great? What does dh feel about getting a job? There were a lot of bored youths hanging around the river in Kingsbridge when we lived there but I have no idea what the facilities are like because ds was 6 when we moved. Would you consider Totnes? It felt a lot less provincial to me and I don't think it's quite as much of a mono culture, although still a long way from London in terms of multi culturalism. Also, there's a train station there so it's 3 hours ish to London and is that bit nearer the M5.

Even though it was hard, my working away for 6 months, it was worth it for us because we are in a MUCH, much better position now as a result, but don't forget I only took it as a very last resort after I'd spent 8 months out of work in Bristol and we really were struggling to pay the bills - I couldn't even get work when I dropped my rate there (I have NO idea why) and so I applied for the MK job having discussed with dh what we'd do if I got it (panic was the answer but we agreed we were desperate). 4 days later I'd been interviewed, found a nursery for dd and started work. The first couple of weeks were ok: I had ds with me for some of it because it was the summer holidays and I was staying with ex mil with him and it was a novelty to get a whole night to myself and to be able to go out for dinner with work colleagues or ex dh sometimes, but that did soon wear off. The whole thing was a big strain on our relationship and on my relationship with both children. I used to drive away on a Sunday night in tears as dd screamed 'mummy don't go' and ds looked sad and then I'd burst into tears with relief too when I hit the bottom of the M32 at 8pm on a Friday night because it meant I was nearly home.

But, I did it, we're ok (now) and it was worth it in the end, as it might be for you. What about renting your London house out and all moving? It would mean less of a risk if you didn't like it and you could go back if you wanted to. If after a year you wanted to stay in Devon then you still could. I know it doesn't resolve the school problem but still, I think I'd do that in your position. You could always haggle about start dates too I think, they won't lose a good person for the sake of a couple of weeks. Well, not if they've got any sense.

Hi Tigermoth,

Well - the fact that you have got a job that was externally advertised in the Guardian bodes very well. That means it is a pretty senior role - and they have selected YOU !!! Well done ! So - you should definitely be able to negotiate a starting salary equivalent to your current salary. I should think they are delighted to have got you ! and hopefully will throw money at you to make sure you accept the job !

Relocation expenses - you will just have to ask - but as they know you are now in London they will be expecting it and tbh I supsect they have accounted for paying relocation. Civil service relocation is quite generous - they might even pay for your accommodation down there, and your trips home at weekends, until you move - and certainly when I relocated last we got a lot of money through that - think they even paid solicitors cost for selling/buying etc. Mind you - belts have been tightened a bit since then - and they might offer you a lump sum instead.

I think the thing is - you will have to ask - I'd lay on thick how delighted you are to have got the job - but obviously you have got a few questions ! Also - they will be flexible about start dates !

In fact - if there is no office there you might even suggest starting the job in London with a weekly trip to Devon, and then gradually move to Devon and start spending a day in London ! At the level you must be at they will be receptive to suggestions like this ! But I still think you need to spend some time in there to see what the job spec is really like - but unfortunately job descriptions can indeed be hazy in the civil service -and especially so at senior levels ! When I went back to work last October my boss asked me to find out what I was supposed to be doing and write my own job description - it's not unusual ! If it's a new job they may not have the expertise to tell you what they want and to a degree it will be for you to define once you are in post !

Good Luck !!

PS - not usually one to disagree - BUT I really really would NOT contact the unions at this point ! Speak to HR in the new place first - and just say what you feel - you are really interseted and pleased to get the job - BUT - you have a lot of reservations and run through them ! then they can respond and let you know where you stand.

Reason I say about not contacting unions is that it creates a horrible impression if it gets back to HR at the new place - and unions in the civil service tend to be extremely networky and word may spread to them before you know it !

My union was fabulous, helpful and extremely confidential when I needed a lot of help a few years ago, but it was a teaching union so maybe different.

This thread made me LOL- coming from Somerset Plymouth seemed positively happening to us LOL!

I would pick up the phone as soon as you have the offer in writing, call Human resources and ask every question you ahve asked here. I did a bit of civil service work (FTA) and found that the HR sections were generally really good at knowing what they were doing (as opposed to my dept, for example )

The area you are looking at is nice- my Ex-P had family from there (big teignmouth family), and Dh comes from the Somerset Devon border. it'll take some adjustment, but in these days of the net it isn't what it was in terms of rural depreivation- I remember when MacD's came to oura rea and it seemed the hugest thing ever LOL!

If you can get the answer you want from HR, then the rest is down to you and your family. I used to ci=ommute once a week to London and could never, ever live there.... for many it's the other way round. Only you know what you need for your life.

Just think you should save them for when there is actually a problem - tigermoth hasn't even asked the questions yet - so so far - no problem !

(and yes teaching unions much better ime)

Devon is 99% white, but Plymouth is not. It used to be, but not now. bear in mind though if you are used to Kingsbridge that Plymouth and kingsbridge are worlds apart in all sorts of ways. One area of Plymouth is one of the top 5 poorest areas in Europe or something, whereas Kingsbridge is at the other end of the scale......... Plymouth's poverty can be quite noticeable at times, although regeneration has started and I would expect it to be as Bristol is now in 5-10 years time.

I find most things a lot cheaper here than London (really noticed the difference going back for a weekend last year). The main problem re local wages is with house prices, but moving from London that shouldn't be a problem.....