Just been offered a job in Devon. Life changing decision. Help!!

[tigermoth]

Its a civil service job, probably based at Plymouth (with monthly visits to London ....)

So much is going through my mind about this. I could easily clog up all the active convos with my worries and queries. ie

Moving to be near extended family in Devon, leaving London friends behind - pros and cons?

New schools for boys, ds1 to leave grammar school for a high performing community college -pros and cons?

Relocating from London to small Devon town, pros and cons?

Leaving dh with the children in London for a few months while I start new job in Devon - pros and cons?

Renting out house in London while we rent in Devon, pros and cons?

Oh and lots of other things.....

But, firstly, as I haven't yet accepted the job properly, and haven't agreed terms and conditions, can I ask the following:

The salary scale: the starting salary is too low for me to accept the job. I need to be on or near the top of the salary band - how do I negotiate this? My present salary, including London Weighting, (I work in the public sector)is slightly higher then the top of the advertised salary.

Do you think I could ask for a relocation grant?

I need to play for time - for lots of reasons, it would be better if I could start just after christmas, if they want me to be working in Devon at least - what do I say to personnel to show I am keen but can't start in early September, which is what was talked about on the phone?

I also just want to know more about the job - strange as it may seem, I still don't know exactly what my role will be. I have only had the one 30 minute interview with the department. I have researched the department and job description thoroughly (did all that before the interview) but still feel I haven't got a clear focus on what I could actually be doing there. Is this a civil service thing?

The bigger questions - family, MIL in Devon, housing, how dh and his job fits into this - I will leave for now as I havn't formally accepted the job.

Advice on the emplyment bits would be really good though as I have to phone personnel on Monday to discuss everything and I want to be clear headed.

Yes agree JessaJam- originally left Plymouth 15 years ago, on moving back 4 years ago was struck by how multicultural it has become (especailly where we live- centrally). The UNiversity is helping to broaden the place a bit as well- it's growing rapidly- a good thing imo.

I'm a headhunter, and when I'm helping people make this sort of decison, a big thing I lead them on is what job you will do after this one ?

Does this job increase your opportunities and experience ?
Is it a step up ? Will you be trained in portable skills ?

If you lost it, or it turned out to be horrid, how hard would it to be to find another ?
If you're relocating your whole life, that is a big issue. Jobs away from cities have all sorts of advantages, but they are necessarily much more of a pain if it goes pear shaped.

Did someone have this job before ? What are they doing now ? Do you think those are the sort of things you'd like to do (or happen to you) ?

Is your boss like you ?
By this I mean (for instance)...
Is he a graduate, and you not ?
Do you need specific qualifications to do the next job up, and will you be trained for this ?
Is it one of those jobs where the majority of the workers are women, yet somehow most of the management grades are men ?

erm Plymouth is a city DC- largest between Bristol and lands end. But I take your point.
I though you worked for some PC mag or something.

Yes, in terms of cost of living, there's a big difference between areas of Devon...Kingsbridge area (and Totnes) are both towards the upper end of the social scale (iykwim..and obviously each has less posh areas...am I making sense?) (Totnes is lentil weaving capital of Devon!) whereas Plymouth itself is pretty good in terms of cost of living I would say (good quality three course meal for 15-20 a head?)

Agree that contacting union in the first instance is not neccessarily the way to go...seems like you are expecting a fight....I think Blue beetle is right you love the sound of the job, it's just what you've been looking for etc, but you have one or two queries, after all it is a significant move from London...

and plymouth has the best Japanese restaurant I've been to outside of Japan Although a bit pricier than 15-20- although agree you can eat decently for that price.

JessaJam we must live near each other!

BTW Tigermoth- Plymouth has good an excellent boys grammer school- less competitive than the Kent ones. not sure where your ds1 is, I'd say it was less competitive than St Olaves, much easier to get into, still does well though. Gooseegg can tell you about the other school you've been considering. I think if you lived in Plymouth rather than Kingsbridge all your concerns would be vapourised (How much travelling into Plymouth would you have to do, the Kingsbridge Rd is painful in the morning, actually it was fairly painful today).

Hello tigermoth,
congratulations on getting this far with the job! As you may remember, we lived in Plymouth for a few years in the late 90s.
It was very hard for companies to recruit skilled people in those days, so if that's still the case, you'd be in a good position to ask for relocation and negotiate on salary.
DommiConnor makes a very good point about the job after next, though, you can wait 6 months or more for a single job to come up in the paper. There is some publishing in Newton Abbott, and more job opps in Exeter of course. (isnt Ladybird books based somewhere down there too?)
Because the job situation's so hard, everyone tends to sit tight in the job they've got, and it was my impression, that this leads to more job bullying.

The mono-cultural thing really did my head in too. I didnt realise how stifling it could be until I lived it. Hope that has improved now.
On the good side, life really does move at a slower pace, and if you are working in the city centre, you can spend your lunch breaks by the sea. And the car boot sales are fab.

Lots to think about here.

I think I'll leave contacting the union for advice for now.

I would consider Totnes like a shot as there is lots going on there, but I think it's out of our price range and anyway not sure I want the joys of living an alternative lifestyle shoved down my throat. Also ds1 seems very receptive to the culture around him I could end up sharing my menopausal years ( assuming this happens then) with a pious teenage hippy.

Plymouth, as you say Jimjams and Jessajam, would feel less of an upheaval moving from one city to another. I think we will have to move down first, then decide on where to buy a house - that's all in the future. The reason we would think about Kingsbridge is that Dh already has friends there, he has been offered some casual work, his mother has offered to help out with the school run and the community college is good. Jimjams - I did look into the plymouth grammar but it seemed quite difficult to get into as it looked at how high a student got over the basic 11+ pass mark - will look again.

Anyway, back to the matter in hand - negotiating a reasonable starting salary.

I know I need to ask a lot more questions before deciding.Thanks to the messages here, I feel more confident that the HR person will expect me to ask them.

It's interesting bluebeetle that you say the post must be senior if it was advertised in the Guardian. It is for a communications officer type placement so not managerial, but it does demand some specific communications skills. I am flattered that you think they must want me very badly - I hope you are right

So when I phone on monday, I will go with the assumption that they will be open to negotiating relocation expenses and a later start date. I will be very keen and delighted but also state my current salary and ask (politely) for the top salary level they are offering. I think it's a very good idea to discuss me starting the job in London and gradually making it more Devon based. This was also mentioned in the interview.

But Bluebeetle (and anyone else) if you think, as I am not mega seniour, that this is not the best approach, please tell me quick!

Ok, to answer your questions dominiconnor:

This job is in line with my ambitions as I have deliberatly moved from the private sector (advertising) to the public sector. I did this in order to be more employable outside of London. Devon specifically.

I believe and hope this job would broaden my experience, though I don't know what opportunites it offers - there was talk of training and development but need to ask more questions on Monday.

It would be difficult to get a similiar local job if this one went pear shaped - I estimate there are 10 or less jobs a year I could realistically apply for.

I must definitely ask if someone had this job before and what they are doing now. I do know that this job was offered to someone else a few weeks before me. I assume they rejected it, so as I was next on the list, the job offer has come to me. So I am cautious but I don't suppose I will be told why the other person turned the job offer down.

I was interviewed by someone who seemed nice enough and whom I could (I think) empathise with. But this woman and all therest of the 12 person team be based at head office in London. I was told I could choose my location - either Plymouth or Exeter, as there are departmental offices at both locations. I would get desk space but have no communications colleagues with me. Not sure how I feel about that. I am fine working alone (freelanced from time to time) but I do also want to feel part of a team, as this will be a totally new work environment for me.

The head of department (whom I really liked at interview) and my direct manager are both women, so no problems there with male only bosses.

Hope there is a recognised career path - need to ask.

Grateful for any comments from you.

Excellent plan tigermoth - do you know what the grade of the post is ? Feel free to CAT me if you'de prefer - then I can tell you how senior it is.

Usually they wouldn't advertise a junior role in the national press - they'd go to local job centres, and I think you mentioned an agency was involved too. It may not be managerial - but can still be senior. I'm in a stand alone post right now but am still quite senior - the importance of the role sometimes dictates the seniority rather than the management responsibility iyswim.

HR will be expecting all the questions - the person you speak to may well have to refer up their line before answering you - but they will have an idea if not an answer.

Good Luck !! And come back and update us !

Having lived in Plymouth and Bromley the feeling I got was that DHS is much easier to get into than St Olaves. I would say it was unusual for a child to be tutored for their 11+ in Plymouth for example. The council had a rule though that if a child failed the 11+ they had to go to the really crap schools (and I mean bad), so "boderline" children were rarely entered. Not sure if that rule still stands (vaguely remember hearing it was illegal or something).

fistfull of nappies - yes, I remember you used to live in Plymouth. I hope the boot sales are still as good!

I do worry that moving jobs will be difficult and can quite see why people sit on the jobs they have. I do keep seeing certain employers like the South West Regional Developmenet Agency regularly recruiting, but so far, nothing specifically that I could do.

I am surprised it is hard for local companies to recruit skilled people, as I thought lots of people would be attracted to the area. When I started sending off application forms in the spring, I planned to do it as a research exercise to see what the competitoin was like - getting feedback each time to see what employers said. As it turned out, I could only find 3 jobs to apply for in 6 months of looking. If I don't go ahead with this one, it could be months before I seeing something similar, let alone get a job offer.

Thanks for all the comments - luckily I am off work on Monday, so will have time and space to think.

thanks for those confidence-boosting words, bluebeetle. If I can dig out the job description I will CAT you. Thanks again.

Will look more closely at the Plymouth grammar school entrance requirements as well, jimjams. thanks!

"Also ds1 seems very receptive to the culture around him I could end up sharing my menopausal years ( assuming this happens then) with a pious teenage hippy."

LOL!

My teenagers have been to both KB and IB community colleges and prefer IB for lots of reasons not least the ease of travel to get by train or bus to Plymouth.
I work in KB and see far more drug/drink probs among teenagers there than in IB.

oh, that's interesting and worrying gooseegg - my info on KB (apart from league table stuff)comes from a local, and very experienced, and senior primary school teacher who is a friend of my MIL and lives in KB. She rated KB highly as do most of MIL's friends, but they have no direct experience of the college - unlike you. I will bear what you say in mind, and if this job offer progresses further, I'll CAT you or look you up for a cup of tea when I am next down.

scummy, and consider the clothes bills if ds1 changes style - out goes all the bling and sportswear, in comes Totnes alternative wear - whatever that is at the time.

Don't go when she's got ds3- he;s a nightmare (trying to drink cups of tea now gooseegg btw)

ds3 that is- he tries to grab them off me and slurp them down.

Sorry for hijack tigermoth, but gooseegg has ds3 from next month again and he's more of a nightmare than he was before (and he was a nightmare then!)

Spoke to HR person earlier this morning - just a brief conversation. I got the distinct impression this was all she expected at this stage.

She has taken note of my salary requirements and the fact that we would have to relocate. She is preparing me a contract which she will send out to me within the week.

She said once I'd looked at the contract, we can talk again and I can ask her questions. So I'll keep you posted. Everyone's advice as helped so much.

dh and I haven't yet told my MIL in Devon - I don't want to raise her hopes is nothing comes of it - but tempted to say something.

jimjams and gooseegg I had no idea you had linked up like this - really looking forward to seeing you both sometime

I have had little socialising opportuntiy when I am in Devon because all this year, our vists have been overshadowed by the fact that my FIL has been very ill and we've wanted to see him as much as possible. He died in July, a couple of days after we came down - dh was holding his hand.

Sorry to hear about your FIL Tigermoth and please pass on my sympathies to your dh.

tigermoth, just caught up with this- sounds very exciting. I am sorry about your FIL. How wonderful for your MIL if you do make it, though.

(oh, and don't listen to Jimjams, her ds3 is a little chubby hunk of gorgeousness )

Am enjoying a good ROFL at the vision of ds1 in Totnes alternative wear Tigermoth. If all comes to pass your bereft London friends will expect pictures of your Going Native processes you know .
Glad to hear they have not made you sign in blood yet.
They must be used to relocation issues I would have thought, and receptive to the need to mull things over.
Have mailed you about next weekend M x

We went through Kingsbridge on Saturday tigermoth and I wondered how your FIL was doing, sad to hear it's all over. It's a pain the backside road, but Plymouth/Kingsbridge doesn't take too long.

Gooseegg has my difficult children for me

Need help again!

I haven't as yet got the contract, but had more converstions with HR about terms and conditions.

Not looking good. Apparently they can only offer me the starting salary - HR person had checked this with the finance(?)section and they had a look at the job description, and also compared it with the grade I am on in my present job. But my present grade has a much higher salary range, and the job I am applying for has similar (even a bit LESS seniour) duties - so much the same level of responsibility as the job I do now.

The HR person started to give me a complicated, jargon filled reason why they could not offer me more money, so I asked them to put it in writing, which they are doing, while still sending me the contract.

I am really confused! The job was advertised with a wide salary range and no mention that applicants would automatically start on the very lowest level, disregarding experience. Also, before I applied for the job, I phoned up personnel, explained I worked for a local authority, stated my present salary and asked if I the starting salary of their advertised job was negtotiable. I was told 'yes' hence me applying! I said this to the HR person and she said it was not true and sorry I was given the wrong information.

The HR person also said the people who interviewed me had not yet been told that the finance department had decreed I could only be offered the lowest starting salary. I find that a bit odd, tbh. I asked if I could possibly speak to one of the interview panel about this, once I had seen the contract. As the director of the department was one of the people on the panel and therefore involved in offering me the post (and I think she liked me), do you think there is any chance she could use her influence to change things?

I am also wondering if there is someone else put forward for this post and they are playing me off against them?

I'd get away from HR/finance and talk director to the director, starting salary only disregarding experince does not sound right- otherwise they couldn't hope to attract in good people from elesewhere or experienced people from anywhere- and why publicise a range?

Perhpas the letter will make the situation clearer, but anyway defintely worth asking the director more.