Just been offered a job in Devon. Life changing decision. Help!!

[tigermoth]

Its a civil service job, probably based at Plymouth (with monthly visits to London ....)

So much is going through my mind about this. I could easily clog up all the active convos with my worries and queries. ie

Moving to be near extended family in Devon, leaving London friends behind - pros and cons?

New schools for boys, ds1 to leave grammar school for a high performing community college -pros and cons?

Relocating from London to small Devon town, pros and cons?

Leaving dh with the children in London for a few months while I start new job in Devon - pros and cons?

Renting out house in London while we rent in Devon, pros and cons?

Oh and lots of other things.....

But, firstly, as I haven't yet accepted the job properly, and haven't agreed terms and conditions, can I ask the following:

The salary scale: the starting salary is too low for me to accept the job. I need to be on or near the top of the salary band - how do I negotiate this? My present salary, including London Weighting, (I work in the public sector)is slightly higher then the top of the advertised salary.

Do you think I could ask for a relocation grant?

I need to play for time - for lots of reasons, it would be better if I could start just after christmas, if they want me to be working in Devon at least - what do I say to personnel to show I am keen but can't start in early September, which is what was talked about on the phone?

I also just want to know more about the job - strange as it may seem, I still don't know exactly what my role will be. I have only had the one 30 minute interview with the department. I have researched the department and job description thoroughly (did all that before the interview) but still feel I haven't got a clear focus on what I could actually be doing there. Is this a civil service thing?

The bigger questions - family, MIL in Devon, housing, how dh and his job fits into this - I will leave for now as I havn't formally accepted the job.

Advice on the emplyment bits would be really good though as I have to phone personnel on Monday to discuss everything and I want to be clear headed.

I think the Civil Service policy is to offer the minimum starting salary for each grade....but the board panel does have discretion for candidates who can prove an exceptional relevant skill or experience

2 years before we moved down here dh applied for a job in Taunton. He was offered the job but the salary was half what he was earning. house prices weren't that different from SE London, so we explained we couldn't afford to move on that. The company had introduced a very rigid pay structure and said they couldn't offer anymore, so we didn't move.

2 years later- tried again in different towns/cities in the south-west with different firms and found them more flexible. Although do be warned that if you come in ata higher than local level- if our experience is anything to go by (and its not public sector so could be different) they will try and freeze your pay at that level until the local catch you up.

I would also get away from HR and speak to the director. Some years ago I went for a job at a university. I got the job, and the manager said the starting salary was negotiable. We agreed on a figure and I accepted the job. HR then stepped in and said the manager was wrong to say the salary was negotiable and would I start on a lower wage? I said no. They really needed a person to start so in the end they gave in and honoured the original agreement.

HI again, thanks for the messages - I really do feel I should somehow get to speak to the director or another person on the interview panel - especially hearing about your dh's experience, Pamina. I don't want to say 'no' to the job unless I am sure they will not budge from the salary offer. At no point in the interview or phone calls has it been mentioned that the starting salary is non negotiable.

bluebeetle, I have CAT-ed you in case you can help (hopeful emoticon)

Jimjams, thanks for the warning that the salary may not go up a lot - I will factor that into any calcuations I make. I don't expect to earn a huge salary when I move, and know I will lose my outer London weighting allowance, but hopefully the contract will give an idea about the type and frequency of the increments.

thanks again!

Hi tigermoth, just got your CAT !

Really depends on whether the organisation you have got the job at has delegated authority to negotiate pay. We are an exec agency with delegated authority - so we will offer what we need (within the ranges) to get the right person for the job. I have to say it gives us problems as we often bring someone in on the max of their scale and their line manager knows that their new staff member is earning more than them !

Civil service policy did used to be to offer at the minimum - as zippi says - but I think change is pretty widespread - and I would have thought that they would offer you more than the min - but probably not the max to be honest !

You may be getting the stock line from HR - I would suggest writing in response to the contract saying that you are really disappointed but unfortunately at that salary you are unable to accept the post. Explain that you had been given the impression that you could achieve a higher salary within the range, and that otherwise you would not have applied. Say how much you would be prepared to settle for - and address the letter to the director who interviewed you.

If they want you - which I suspect they do - the director will be able to offer more ! They definitely can't pay more than the max of the scale - and they probably won't offer you the max either (on principle !) - but there should be some leeway !

You need to get what you need now - because once you start you ae tied into the scale and the only way up the [pay scale is promotion ! I am stuck and really need to get up my scale now - the only change you get to negotiate is on joining - so be firm with them !

Hope that helps !

thanks so much for your email bluebeetle (I will take your advice regarding salary level - that's the figure I had in mind myself)

I am dithering about putting a salary request in writing to the director. I was thinking more of talking to her on the phone so I could hear her tone of voice and get a sense of her point of view a little better. I don't know whether the department is waiting for me to go through the motions of rejecting the starting salary, just so they have proof for an appeal. I will think on how I approach it some more - any adice or experiences from anyone would be really useful here!

I am glad to hear many government departments now have a more flexible approach to starting salary - as you say, jimjams, if departments stick rigidly to low starting salaries and don't take non civil service experience into account, many skilled civil service outsiders would never consider the jobs.

Hope the contract arrives soon, anyway.

Tigermoth, I have no experience in this sector but I'd just say there's no such thing as totally non negotiable imo and if you don't ask you don't get. Good luck, I hope they come up with the increased rate and I really don't think you should take it unless they do, it's a big move.

thanks - that's my feeling, too www. I don't mind compromising on salary but there is a limit to how much compromise I can make. I will keep reviving this thread to give updates (assuming anyone is interested )

have you got an update?

Hi Zippi - I am just back from Butlins and the contract came while I was away. Dh and I had lots of time to talk through stuff, which was good.

I intend to contact the department next week - first for payscale info and then to talk to director about salary level. Keeping fingers ands toes crossed.

Apparently there was a report last week- recently anyway- saying that Devon was the area in the UK with the biggest difference between house prices and salary (this would be particularly true of Kingsbridge and surroundings- 2nd home territory). Other costs wil often be cheaper, but do look at current house prices. I would recommend doing the sums very carefully before accepting too big a drop.

Fingers and toes crossed. It is lovely down here

Good luck tigermoth. Agree with Jimjams re house prices but you might be ok with London equity to consider.

jimjams, I don't suppose you remember where you saw the report? I'll google for more info. It might be useful to mention the findings when I talk to the organisation next week.

It's true we'd have equity in whatever home we buy, and I think we should be able to get a better mortage deal than our present one, on what we borrow. This will make some difference, but yes, I need to do my sums carefully, especially as dh will be giving up his job too, if we move and then will be on a casual wage until he finds something - long shot, but if anyone hears of any pest control jobs going in the area (dh is a qualified pest control officer) do let me know!

Batters, thought you must be on holiday - glad you're connected again. Nice of you to say I'd get another job offer quickly. I am not that sure. The sort of posts I can apply for are so few and far between. Yes, the Butlins trip was courtesy of mumsnet. Really good way to end the school holidays (and we didn't go with hugely high hopes, especially dh).

I'm all for life changing decisions, it helps your family to grow and mature and brings you all closer together. I think it's a very healthy thing to do and if you have the chance to do something like that you should go for it.

I wondered what you'd advise, rhuharb - I know you did it without far less of a safety net. Thanks for your insight. I so agree that it will change our familiy if we do it - you are so right. I feel it's a move forward and want to do it, but so hope the practicalities make it possible.

You can overcome any problem. We have dealt with sickness, mental trauma, job losses, etc and we are stronger as a result. There is nothing you can't do and in the long term your family will thank you for it. They will become stronger and more indepedent, resilient too. Good luck mate!

thanks again - I am no leader by choice. I've got shoved out in front here, just because we can't move till I personally have a job to go to. It will probably be easier for dh to pick up casual work in Devon so him finding a job first isn't such an issue. It may happen that I am the main breadwinner once we have moved and for the long term future. Hope dh and I end up as more of an equal breadwinning team, as I don't want the responsibliy on my shoulders.

Hi again - just popped back in to see what progress you have made with them Tgermoth ?

Also - Rhubarb - how is your new job going ? (it's Norah with a new name here by the way !!)

no news as yet! They have had my request for several days....

oh i have missed all this! congratulations on the offer and good luck with the negotiations!

Hi tigermoth, I also missed all this. Most of it seems to have happened when I was away.

Oh I do hope it works out for you to move to Devon. DH and I are planning to relocate there as soon as we cans sell our house. Lovely essbee is there. Think of the meet-ups we could have! See you at suzywong's bash and you can tell me what's happening!

Anorak, I didn't know you were also planning to relocate - essbee won't be able to step outside her front door without bumping into a mumsnetter I must find out the latest on Suzy Wong's bash - will definitely try to make it as I'd love to talk to you more.

Thanks for the good wishes bossykate.

Batters, I too am hoping that the delayed response is a good sign. I was told I was the only other candidate up for this job, as the first candidate refused it. So if I refuse it as well, they will have to re advertise with more delay and expense.

In my message about salary I emphasised the high cost of living in Devon, leading on from the research jimjams mentioned. As this is an objective fact, I hope this will help persuade them that the starting salary is not going to be viable for a lot of applicants - not just me.