High earning mothers

[ClarissaG]

I'm interested to start a discussion group for Mums and Mums to be who are juggling (or planning to juggle) a high flying career and motherhood. I loath to use the term 'Power Mums', but those who earn enough (£100k plus) to afford a team of help, but have the kind of pressures and working hour expectations that that level of salary brings.

I read the Mumsnet Guest blog with interest (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/guest_blogs/1977242-Why-is-society-so-unsupportive-of-high-achieving-power-mums) but the comments less so.

Is there scope for a supportive group for such Mums with practical ideas, experiences and thoughts rather than judgement about whether we can 'have it all'?

I am mid thirties, a VC, 12 weeks pregnant and have not yet told my fellow partners. I want it all but have no idea if that is realistic or how my future is going to pan out!

kalidasa your sickness sounds really bad!! oh poor you. did they say that if you get pregnant again that you will experience the same thing??? I didn't get the sickness, I had the retching but that thankfully left at about 12 weeks.

Yes I think it is pretty inevitable NK. If you are as ill as I was in a first pregnancy it is very likely to recur. Also I had two very early mcs before DS and even though they were v. v. early (4.5 and 5.5 weeks) I was already very unwell. In fact, pregnancy tests were a bit redundant in my case! But this time they have prescribed me loads of medication in advance and there is some research that suggests that if you hit it hard with preemptive medication it can improve the overall experience a bit. Basically once you have become extremely dehydrated once it is hard not to keep relapsing whereas apparently if you can use medication to avoid that it might be a bit better. We're going to give it a go anyway!!

I am told the SPD will be worse and start earlier, that's standard apparently in subsequent pregnancies. Oh well! At least we know what we are in for . . .

Wow- this thread is busy today!
Have4goneinsane - My son has special needs. He is only little but was very poorly for about a year from the age of 1-2. He had a immune system disorder which meant that he was carrying some infection or another full year- ear infections, tonsillitis, skin infections etc. and was admitted to hospital several times. He now has expressive language delay and hearing loss. I managed to work through all of this (on 3-6 hours sleep a night) because we have a wonderful, highly experienced nanny. If I was relying on nursery care or an inexperienced nanny, there is no way I could have coped.

I also learned to outsource all the domestic labour I possibly could. It has never occurred to me to feel guilty about this, I just feel very lucky that it's an option we have. We have a cleaner/housekeeper a day a week who does all the laundry and ironing. Our nanny does chores too, as well as working on my son's speech therapy programme and ensuring DD's school reading books and handwriting/piano practice happens now and again. I cook because I like to, my husband gardens because that's what he enjoys. The house is not perfect but it's homely and clean.

Although I am at the early stages of experiencing special needs with my own son, I have worked with children with special needs/ disabilities most of my career and have some idea of the difficulties involved. Having spent years as that professional who expects parents to meet them where and when you request, it's a bit of a shock when the boot is on the other foot!

oh god that sounds truly appalling kalisada, poor poor you. I think you should have earned a good sleeper at least! I really hope it's not so bad with DC2.

Kali, how awful. I remember with the twins lying on the office floor (the being so sick thing sounds similar to you but nothing like as bad) and having particular sinks around the house I used to vomit in. It was much much worse than with the morning sickness of the single babies but I could keep fluids and some food down, and did not need a drip and after month 3 it got better. It was never so bad I couldn't sit my desk and work. I am very lucky that I've not really had any problems either with the children or the pregnancies. Good luck with doing it a second time. Could you hire an Indian surrogate to bear your child - your egg and your husband's sperm or may be that's not something you'd want to do?

People do actually do that laura for this condition - I mean hire a surrogate - but that is not something I could consider. Yes, keeping fluids down is key - as long as you can keep fluids down most people are OK and can stay out of hospital and sort of function - even if you eat very little for weeks you starve much more slowly than you dehydrate! There are loads of little trick - like sucking icecubes - to try to get fluid going in but beyond a certain point there's not a lot you can do. There's a fantastic HG support thread on here though, really wonderful.

I'm sorry to hear about your son abovetheoxbow. Is the language delay and hearing loss caused by the series of infections do they think? Did you already have your excellent nanny in place when he became ill? We are just in the process of switching to a nanny, partly because of my likely ghastly pregnancy, but also because every time DS is unwell it is such a stress and we end up getting an emergency nanny and paying twice over.

One of my sisters was in and out of hospital for years when I was small and we also had a nanny who held everything together.

Why an Indian surrogate Laura ?

have4 and Oxbow so far DD doesn't appear to have any SN though as she was premature we are always on the lookout. I can imagine that work would become even more important in that situation. have4 can you ask school to contact DH some of the time appreciate they probably just want a single contact though...

Kalidasa our nanny arrived in late August and DS woke up with 2 ruptured eardrums on 1st September- it it was more luck than judgement! It sounds like you had a terrible time during your first pregnancy. If I was in your shoes, I'd go for a nanny without a doubt. For me the advantages are the continuity at home, help with some chores and flexibility. It's nice not to have to rush them out of the house in school holidays and a relief to know that there is someone eminently sensible around when DS is unwell.

Kalidasa that sounds awful, I cannot even imagine how difficult it must be to hold it all together and I really admire your decision to try for another in those circumstances.

Re home help, I have never felt guilty either although I do feel people are generally judgmental about it - one way or the other. The concept is totally alien to my MIL and I am convinced she thinks DH married a useless woman who can't cook, clean her own house or look after her own children. She has no idea about my work (or that I earn more than twice what he does). On the other hand, I raised a lot of eyebrows at work when I chose to put DD in nursery for a time rather than employing a nanny. But it was the right thing for us at the time and I am glad I did it that way. I dont really care what others think of my domestic arrangements but it does make it a difficult subject to discuss. Right now I am trying to work out how I want to arrange things when I go back to work later this year but struggle to find people I can discuss this with objectively.

Agree that exhaustion is a huge issue and has I think really impacted my performance in the last few years. I am one of those people who needs 8 hours of sleep to function properly and when I dont get it the first thing that goes is my ability to speak clearly - I forget what I was about to say mid sentence and I also tend to use a completely different word to what I intended (for example i might say "have you got the baby" when I meant "have you got the notebook"). Given I work in a publicly facing (communications) role I really worry about the impact this has had on my credibility!

Sympathies and even some empathy for those with difficult pregnancies. Mine wasn't easy and we tried for a second child but I was partly relieved to know I wouldn't go through all that again

My gran always had at least 3 helpers of various kinds, eg cleaner gardener etc. so I had no problem with it dh was far more reluctant but he is by far the messier if us two so I reacjon that the cleaner is his help more than mine.

good to hear there are others out there with SEN kids. My oldest three all have Asperger's/Autism plus additional bits and bobs. School call me because they know I work at home so I'm only a block from school whereas DH is in the city. Fortunately this term I've only been called once - a vast improvement on last year when one or other of them ended up in sick-bay or the head's office at least once a week and I was often called in to try and talk DD1 back into the classroom.

We are in Oz and daycare here is relatively cheap (about £30/day) whereas a good nanny is hideously expensive - £50,000/year kind of money for live out, so even with both of us being high earners that is beyond us right now, so the trick seems to be to find good day-care and afterschool care, but that does of course have its downsides. It's something we will have to consider as my workflow builds.

Agree with Laura about putting things aside and coming back later to check if you are tired - I often pick up glaring and potentially very embarrassing errors that way.

Kali, your pregnancy sounds grim, good luck with your next one

I don't suffer from guilt from having help at home - we now have help in the form of our full time nanny (60 hours per week) ironing and cleaning (15 hours per week), gardening (4 hours per week) and home PA (4 hours per week). However, with the exception of our nanny, we have been slow to recognise when we have needed more help and have struggled on for ages doing things ourselves.

In terms of compartmentalising, I do it to a sensible degree. So, the minute I get home I have 2 munchkins jumping all over me so I go straight into mummy mode. I don't work over the weekend. I do check emails first thing in the morning when dcs are watching 20 mins of TV in my bed. On the other hand, I face time them every afternoon after school/nursery. It's 5 mins that's built into my schedule and makes us all happy

We had a bad sleeper in DC2, shared nights equally and it was very hard for three years. Got through it in the end though DH almost fell asleep on the train home sometimes.

kali crikey your pregnancy sounds brutal!

Bryn what are the options you are considering now that you struggle to discuss objectively IRL? Is it whether to get a nanny or nursery? Here might be a good place to discuss pros and cons?

I had an email from the national head of dept today. Not to me personally but to the whole dept. setting out our YTD results. Not looking good and the plan has been revised down. Although I doubt jobs are at risk, I also doubt there will be many (any?) promotions this year, which is a pain because I worked very hard before mat leave to get there (the annual promotions are in the summer whilst I will be off). I think I made it on personal performance but if there is no business need I won't stand a chance - frustrating! It was always going to be tricky keeping myself in the running on mat leave. I'm going to try to do a few KIT days around the time decisions are made anyway though. Any advice, anyone? (I've decided I'm not going to return from mat leave before the promotion decisions are made).

Ice - could you speak to someone about it (eg your direct boss if you have a good relationship)? It sounds like you have done what you can in terms of performance (which is impressive while you have been pregnant) so I would have thought there is no harm in voicing your concern if there is a trusted individual you could speak to? Its always hard to stay in the loop when youre not there but I think having that sort of conversation will only underscore your commitment? I would hope that any decision would be taken unrelated to the fact that you are /have been on mat leave but either way It wouldnt hurt for you to get as much visibility as you can on what the outlook is?

As far as my "options" go I will definitely need a nanny this time round so I suppose I'm really trying to work out what additional housekeeping help I'll need and how to organise that - how many hours I will need, what I can ask them to do, and how you would ensure there is no conflict with the nanny - although I suppose a lot of it depends on the person you employ! I am a bit embarrassed to discuss this IRL and even on here as I feel I ought to be able to cope with more myself - but I've tried and I know I dont have enough time or energy to manage the house as well as my job so really have to increase the amount of home support if I'm going back.

I also struggle a bit with the employer relationship - I find it a bit awkward - and with "letting go" the control over the home. I am not good at delegating at work either which is one of the main things I need to work on to keep ny career moving along!

I should add - I've had loads of great advice and examples from others on here already so not really looking for further specific advice - it was more a general observation that its an awkward subject to discuss!

noviceoftheday I think that you have the sort of help around the house that would just about keep us organised! You sound eminently sensible for taking on that support and it's exactly what I'd do if/when I went back full(er) time. I thought I was really ahead of myself this week. I even made granola bars for DD's packed lunch and had my work outfits on hangers on Sunday night. Then the school had to chase me twice for school trip money and I spent an hour yesterday evening trying to trace a mysterious fishy smell before finding an unopened oyster shell (brought back from the beach) in my daughter's play kitchen!

Brynhilde The 'letting go' has never been an issue for me since my hold on domestic matters has always been pretty tenuous (see above). However, DH's colleague (partner, City law firm) has really struggled with this, especially each time she returned from maternity leave. I think it does get easier once everyone gets into a rhythm.

Thanks Bryn, I'll think about that. My direct boss is one of the people who would be making promotion decisions and I do have a good relationship there - but I'd need to get the timing right.

It sounds like you are quite self aware WRT the employer/housekeeper/nanny thoughts. Good luck with finding the right people. Hopefully it will fall into place once you start interviewing people.

I'm finding that having the kind of organisation I have for work is also necessary for home in order to ensure that school money etc doesn't get forgotten

so school notes are dealt with immediately in mummy time or go into an expandable file on the kitchen surface (which is where I keep other short term household paperwork) until they can be dealt with and a task goes into Remember the Milk. Once done each child has a bulldog clip above the hook for their schoolbag which is where they have to pick up any notes for school from

plan, plan, plan - we have a family meeting over tea each Sunday where we go through the week ahead altogether so that they know if there is going to be a different school pick-up and so I also have my head round everything, we also check the weather forecast and then plan the week's meals (where we are the max temperature can vary between 35C and 14C at this time of year) - all this information goes on the weekly planner on the fridge as a reference for everyone

I've definitely found it gets easier as the kids get older and also as you settle into a rhythm and routine, although ours is so finely balanced that small things can throw it out - I'm at a conference next Friday which is normally my non-paid-working, houseworking, organisation day and I know that that will knock onto other things - maybe a spot where I need to pull DH in more

I have no problems at all with letting go. In fact, I expect to be able to show someone what needs to be done an then they get in with it and I never have to think about it again.

My only problem with paying for help is that I would rather be paying off the mortgage or putting it into my pension. Once I have an MA I shall be having a serious look at career advancement and hope to get a good 10 years of that before scaling back as older age sets in.

in fact, you guys are really making me realise that I need to pull DH in much more. I've just started work on a contract that pulls in more for the equivalent of 2 weeks' work than he earns in a month and yet I still see myself as the low-earning SAHM

Yes it's hard to balance up saving/pension/paid help. My view is that a lot of expense now is effectively an investment in our future earnings, because domestic help in these challenging years with a young family and full time jobs will allow us to maintain our careers and earn more long term. I do think it's possible DH might "opt out" in some way at some point though, he is much more ambiguous about his job than I am.

We are lucky in that although not very highly paid we do get a good (final salary based) pension with our jobs - we both started just before they changed the terms of the scheme. Also we don't have a mortgage which I'm aware is a really massive advantage especially in London, and makes a huge difference to what we can afford/consider. I do like to save though - and find investing interesting and enjoyable, I even put money monthly into stocks when I was a PhD student on a teeny tiny (but tax free) scholarship stipend - so I do feel a bit uncomfortable spending all income on help for a while without any saving capacity.

By the way, I meant to mention earlier that I did join that "citymothers" organisation that Laura (I think) linked to a few weeks ago on this thread. Even though I am not working for a city firm they didn't seem to mind and have accepted my application. It seems like an interesting group and I work very close to the city so hope to be able to attend some of their events.

Thanks - some great examples here of how to make it work for you. Novice I love the sound of your setup and would love to do something similar - good point about recognising what you need help with and doing something about it. I read somewhere (possibly further up this thread) that you should get as much help as you can afford and will definitely go down that route if / when I return. I think I'm struggling with some stupid desire to be supermum and hold down a high profile career while at the same time ironing my childrens clothes but need to learn to accept that you cant do everything! Its made harder by the fact that unlike some I dont reslly mind doing housework but I do mind not having the time to do it properly!

Have4 I admire your setup and would love to "run" our home like that but suspect I'm the only one who would adhere to it! Unless of course we find a super organised nanny and then she and I can run it together!

School demands get more over time - a packed lunch for a trip here, a fancy dress costume there. I would like more help with that but we don't have a nanny.