Government's "new" great childcare plan....

[duende]

I know there was a thread about it here a few weeks ago, but now a bit more detail is available:

parents to get 20% of childcare cost back

Now, I can't help but see it as a bit of a con. First of all, annoyed by how they sell it - our childcare bill is closer to 10-12k, so £1200 per year is NOT 20%.
Also, at the moment, both me and DP get the full amount available in childcare vouchers, which they will abolish. I get £243 per month, DP gets £220, and I am a higher tax payer.
Surely we will not be better off with this great new deal they have come up with?

Also, this will only be available to families where both parents work, current childcare voucher scheme is not restricted this way.

Am I missing something here, or are they about to screw people over again whilst dressing it as a positive move??

So in 2015 I will graduate and my dc will be 4 and 9, rising 5 and 10 in the autumn. Currently dh pays the maximum vouchers so will now not be able to leave his current employer so we can continue to save and pay for wraparound care. Will the voucher scheme be phased out over time?

What we would have done was have me pay into the vouchers too when I re-entered the workplace to cover the extra cost occasioned by holiday care for 2dc. This is going to be another Tory shambles isn't it?

Just had a look - so it will start with under 5s and older children will be included later. And if you can stay on vouchers, all you need to do is hold on to those until school age-children are included.

We're moving to a new area once I finish my studies at the end of next year, so DH will be changing jobs then. Hopefully that will be in time for him to get into a new voucher scheme before it's too late.

No Annie see www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21842014

www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/press_29_13.htm

Vouchers seem to be still available if you already have them when the scheme comes in. It's not per family but per child. The scheme is starting with under 5s but will grow to include up to 12s. Help for people getting tax credits (later universal credit) is being worked out separately. Martin Lewis seems to think (with an 'at a first glance' disclaimer) that it benefits people not makes them worse off.

The scheme will initially only be open to pay for children under five

And To be introduced from 2015, it would cover children up to five years old, but will build up "over time" to include under-12s

Another one who agrees that making childcare tax-deductible is the way forward. Then we all get remuneration directly in proportion to how much me earn and how much we spend on childcare. Couldn't be more fair.

Who knows what over time means?

I thought it would be good, since we never worked for anyone who offered vouchers and we didn't get childcare element of CTC. But since it's only for under 5s for the first year or 2 then we'll likely get nothing.
If lucky I'll get back at around £20k; taking childcare out of just my salary means working for about £1.50/hour take home (plus NI & pension, maybe). I've no idea how folk cope if on lower salaries.

Is that right lunatic? I know that vouchers reduce your taxable income, but won't this new system work in the same way, in that you will claim back the tax relief?

Will they be scrapping the free 15 hours a week for over 3's?

Why does everything have to so bloody complicated? How about rather than all these complex, vote catching 'add ons', why don't the bastards just tax us all less?

God I hope not sundaymonday. I've been worried about that too. I just don't trust them

I haven't read every page of this thread but has anybody else mentioned that apparently this will apply to the self employed? I can only say ABOUT BLOODY TIME to that - I am self employed because I was made redundant and there were no other jobs. I don't get sick or holiday pay and I am going through maternity on just Mat Allowance from Day1, there's no chance of childcare vouchers for me. At LAST in this proposal there is finally something that applies to us too. I agree that the proposal is not ideal but whatever happens between now and it being implemented, it needs to continue to include the self employed who get a really bum deal from all other govt policies.

So let me get this straight. I have one DS who will be in school by 2015 and one DC due in June this year so will be in nursery. DH earns over the threshold for us to lose CB and I work part time. We both claim full childcare vouchers.

Child benefit lost (£33.80 per week x 52 weeks) £1758
Tax savings lost in abolishing vouchers (£933 + £1225) £2158
TOTAL LOSS £3916
Claim back for one child in childcare (1200)
(assuming full claim of £1200)

NET LOSS £2715 per year. (roughly £226 a month)

This is assuming we get the full claim back on childcare costs which I doubt we would get as I imagine they?ll stagger it based on earninngs.

Sounds about right mama. Don't you just love this government!

But doesn't it only apply to self employed people who pay tax?

I don't earn enough to pay tax because I'm not full time as I can only afford limited childcare (chicken and egg scenario). However I won't benefit from this proposal because I'm not a tax payer.

When both children are in school I will be more or less full time and hopefully a tax payer.

Jesus wept, I hoped I was missing something.

all this and add on the relaxing of ratios, which will just mean nurseries that keep the current ratios charging more for a 'premium' service and we may go top of the league for the most expensive childcare in the world. Top marks Dave .

Does anyone know how it would work if DH is currently claiming vouchers (and would like to continue to do so) and I (self-employed) want to claim back the £1200? Would this be allowed?

God, this just makes a lot of assumptions about family structure, doesn't it? I've yet to crunch the numbers, but I think we'd be worse off.

My DH and his ex split childcare costs down the middle for my DSD, because they have a 50:50 access arrangement. We use childcare vouchers to help bring down the costs of paying for our half. In two years' time, DSD will be 9, so she will still need a childminder to look after her after school. There goes the assistance with paying for her care.

But even if the Government changes its mind and extends the scheme to over-fives in 2015, there is still an issue for our family. DH and I would like to have more children together. I plan to take maternity leave when said children are babies. But I had also planned to keep DSD with her current childminder, because her mother needs childcare for her weeks with DSD, whether I'm on mat leave or not. And the way our rota is set up, it wouldn't make business sense for the CM to have DSD part-time. And changing the rota to suit one year of mat leave for me seems like a lot of unnecessary upheaval for DSD. So, if there is a baby for me to take care of in 2015, I'm under the impression that DH and I would still not be eligible for childcare assistance for DSD under this new scheme, because I would be on maternity and therefore "not working". Whereas, we could continue to access a bit of assistance through the current employers' childcare vouchers scheme - doesn't matter if I'm sitting in an office or not.

sundaymondaytuesday - I hope not; I''m in the same scenario as you. We can only afford a few hours for DD2 at nursery per week, and this just about allows me to keep on top of the work I do have (including working in the evenings and weekends where necessary).

To increase my income to taxable levels, I'd have to spend substantially more time working, but can't do it when I'm looking after DD. Aargh.

I think you do have to pay tax to benefit if you're s-e but if you do the calculations it might make it financially possible for you to buy more childcare if it means earning a bit more. I'm planning on working a minimum of 2 days a week (some of which will be weekends and evenings with DH doing childcare).

The tax threshold equates to working 2.5days a week if working for minimum wage (or less if earning more per hour) so I guess if you're earning less then I guess they would say you are mostly a SAHP doing a bit of work, rather than mostly working.

FGS!

Why on earth don't they just give everybody a decent tax free personal allowance if they work and get rid of all these special schemes that are hugely costly and complicated to deliver and claim.

Osborne has been witterong about raisng the personal allowance to £10k as an aspiration for years. Just give everybody a tax free £15k allowance and get rid of every other 'in work' benefit and allowance - just give everyone who actually works a decent incentive!

Honestly, what with tax credits, which are a pernicious system invented by Labour to give some voters some of their tax money back and all sorts of fiddling about with benefits and allowances the system gets ever more Byzantine by the day.

I voted for the Conservative party and got the Coalition and am sick to death of them. UKIP get my vote - could they be really any worse?

My sentiments exactly morebeta

I agree, morebeta. I don't [i]think[/i] I'm unintelligent but I'm really struggling with this one.

I am registered with a childcare voucher scheme but suspended payments when DH became a SAHD... Do you think it's worth it, or even possible, to start making small token payments again to make sure we don't lose out? DS will be going into childcare part-time again soon as DH is returning to work.