Government's "new" great childcare plan....

[duende]

I know there was a thread about it here a few weeks ago, but now a bit more detail is available:

parents to get 20% of childcare cost back

Now, I can't help but see it as a bit of a con. First of all, annoyed by how they sell it - our childcare bill is closer to 10-12k, so £1200 per year is NOT 20%.
Also, at the moment, both me and DP get the full amount available in childcare vouchers, which they will abolish. I get £243 per month, DP gets £220, and I am a higher tax payer.
Surely we will not be better off with this great new deal they have come up with?

Also, this will only be available to families where both parents work, current childcare voucher scheme is not restricted this way.

Am I missing something here, or are they about to screw people over again whilst dressing it as a positive move??

I have heard it's under-12s

I'm a childminder. At the moment, 2 out of my 3 families would lose out. If they can't afford to go to work and pay for childcare, it's not viable for me to continue so I'm also out of work. The one family which doesn't get any help with childcare costs would then lose me as a carer and their children would have to find alternatives. They've been with me for 7 years and would be very very upset.
I'd then be forced to find alternative work for which I'd have to pay for childcare which I wouldn't be able to afford!
shit shit shit idea.

When I first Heard the headline on Breakfast I thought hurray something to take away the bitter taste of losing child benefit, then I I realised that its not starting until 2015. Then I worked out that we will lose our childcare vouchers then I found out that you have to pay the childcare costs up front and claim the 20% back through your tax at the end of the year.

Overall I'm not happy as yet again DH and I will be much worse off, and I'm still smarting from losing our CB even though DH is only just over the limit and families with incomes up to £118 can still get it.

Every which way we turn we seem to be penalised for working hard and trying our best, this condem government said it was going to be pro parents but patently that was a lie. I always remember my mother telling me in the 70's that she was always better off when labour were in and worse off under the Tories (this was even pre thatcher) and I have to say that where working people are concerned especially those with children she was right.

Darlingclementime correctly noted that the only real beneficiary here is business, or rather the economy. The general thrust of successive governments? childcare agendas has been, quite correctly, partly a drive to turn all SAHPs into workers rather than mere parents. Staying at home and bringing up your children? How is that helping global economic recovery?

So I enjoyed hearing the minister on the Today programme just now, helpfully rebranding looking after 2-year-olds as ?early years education?. That?s the ticket.

But hey, why stop there? The government could go so much further. It would surely be better for the economy if Mums and Dads got back to work even sooner. Maternity and paternity leave must be costing us billions. Why not take a quick snap and movie of the little monkeys when they pop out in the labour ward ? there?s a load of new jobs there, by the way, for delivery room camera crews - then smack the parents full of drugs to reduce pain and separation anxiety before a taxi whips them straight back to the office, complete with a party bag of pads to mop up inconvenient spillages on the office upholstery? Meanwhile, some kind of conveyor belt whisks each new kid to the nearest registered childminder, where it lives happily and gets a proper early-years education extending for, oh, about the next 21 years, before graduating to play its own part in high capitalism and begin breeding more workers.

Just imagine all the extra money we could earn, all the extra stuff we could buy, if we outsourced parenting entirely and devoted ourselves to the job of earning and spending more money!

(NB: Sometimes, I get accused of being a bit sarcastic... The above me veting with a satirical response to the anguish these changes are stoking up, so heartfelt and obvious in the many posts above. I also fear that there is a bigger debate to be had here, but that getting parents worried about how many pounds we?ll earn or lose by tweaks to the childcare system is a neat way of diverting attention. That's it from me. Better stop typing and earn some money now.)

bigkidsdidit it cuts off at 5 as well, which the current scheme is up to 12 or 15. So it's everyone with less than one child under 5 worse off. It's a stealth cut surely? And also previously you can claim childcare vouchers of worth £930 tax free from one parent. Now you can't claim unless you both work. So this is also against SAHMs. Do they say anything about part time workers? Do they get a pro rata benefit? As in the current scheme you can claim the max amount even if you are part time.

none of this surprises me in the least, tbh. Tory govts screw everyone except big business, every time.

Bluey 2 earners get 2 times the tax threshold,1 earner only gets 1.

So a family on 60k with 1 salary pay more tax than a family on 2 x 30k and they lose their CB.

True, Kazoo. There is a sliding scale for loss of tax allowance over £100k but obviously that doesn't affect the earning level you're talking about.

It can't be that hard to come up with something simple and fair?

I've just written to my MP as I think this is just insanity.
I live in a rural area where holiday childcare is almost non existant. What there is tends to be the odd day of dance / football / drama run by voluntary organisations or sports clubs. None of whom are OFSTED registered so can't use either the current vouchers for this anyway but we did at least have our Child Benefit to pay for this until recently. That stopped in January (and no, we're not super high earners, just that my DH earns just over the threshold where it stops).
And now this lunacy! We do still buy employer childcare vouchers and are able to use them to pay for the wraparound care before / after school a couple of days per week and, thank goodness, we can continue to use these. However, families like ours in future, won't have that option as it's only going to be available for families with children under 5 to begin with! What on earth is that about? Do kids stop needing childcare after that age or something?!
This makes me soooo cross.
Please, write to your MPs too - they need to hear from parents.

You'd think wouldn't you considering the education the Bullingdon Three have had.

I don't see what was wrong with childcare vouchers. The argument is that they weren't offered by all businesses or self-employed, surely all the had to do is find a way for them to be made available to anyone earning rather than scrap a system that worked well for one that screws most people over?

Are they scraping the old scheme or just closing it for new parents? BBC web site seems to suggest that if you already claim the vouchers you can continue to do so.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21833929

You can continue if you are on the old scheme it seems. But surely that's only good until you change jobs?

It's like they never ask anyone that would be affected by their policies - just go for what they think amongst themselves, from their own experience, in that room. Because consultation would just be too much effort wouldn't it?

But why should families on 300k get help,just why?

I don't get why those of us on 50-60 get punished and the mega rich get rewarded just because both parents work.

Having just lost 2.5k a year in child benefit as dh earns just over the threshold and we have 3 dc, this is the final straw. I think this government must hate me nearly as much as I hate them. My youngest will be 5 in 2015, just my luck again!!

Also, what happens if one parent is studying at college or university? Surely they will still need child care. Will educating yourself not be classed a worthy of help?

Parents wanting to retrain will be a thing of the past unless they are insanely well off. They are facing a HUGE rise in university/further education fees, many will have lost Child Benefit and now this.

God I really hate this government. They have given my family a serious kicking. We just don't know what to do for the best anymore.

It's good news that the self-employed and people who previously didn't earn enough for vouchers can now get help with childcare. But that's where it ends.

Most people will now be getting less help with childcare, and we were already paying the highest fees in Europe. If the government wants to get the economy moving they need to help parents get back into work, not hinder them by reducing the amount of help they get.

I will also be interested to find out if students count. I'm a full-time student, so my DC are in childcare after school to 6pm. But if I'm deemed to be "not working" that means our family won't be eligible any more and we'll be screwed.

I mean, it's annoying enough that I can't claim vouchers as a student, but at least DH can so we get some help. They can't just refuse to help families where one is in education, surely?

Sill me, of course they can. They've screwed over the disabled and the poor, why would they care about students and families.

"Parents who already claim childcare vouchers through the old scheme would be able to continue to do so if they wish, but it would be closed to new claimants who would be moved to the new tax-free childcare scheme."

Annie you won't be claiming under the new scheme. It doesn't cover children over 5. Seeing they are at school, they probably are over the age limit.

Didn't someone upthread say the limit was age 12?

And since when do childcare requirements stop once children go to school?

FFS, what idiots. And this is being touted as "so helpful to working parents".

Just wanted to add my voice to those saying the scheme is just yet another pisspoor, incoherent govt policy, which seems to have been rushed out to give Osborne a 'feelgood' factor before the Budget. They clearly think we're stupid.

Why they can't simply make childcare tax deductible (esp as chauffeurs are )? Is that not a fairer solution?

(And on a side note, that BBC report by Allegra Stratton. It's not a model of detached analysis is it? More a copy & paste of the govt press release. Is she related to anyone in the Coalition? Or just a bit dense?)