Government's "new" great childcare plan....

[duende]

I know there was a thread about it here a few weeks ago, but now a bit more detail is available:

parents to get 20% of childcare cost back

Now, I can't help but see it as a bit of a con. First of all, annoyed by how they sell it - our childcare bill is closer to 10-12k, so £1200 per year is NOT 20%.
Also, at the moment, both me and DP get the full amount available in childcare vouchers, which they will abolish. I get £243 per month, DP gets £220, and I am a higher tax payer.
Surely we will not be better off with this great new deal they have come up with?

Also, this will only be available to families where both parents work, current childcare voucher scheme is not restricted this way.

Am I missing something here, or are they about to screw people over again whilst dressing it as a positive move??

Ah flaps. Italics fail...

It is detrimental for low earners, part time workers and sahp's, as to be eligible you have to both be earning over £10,000 a year.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9939692/Childcare-minister-denies-1200-vouchers-are-anti-stay-at-home-mums.html

but mimmum there's separate childcare support built into tax credits/universal credit for low earners. And it's a childcare policy, why would a family with a SAHP need it? Interested to see how it impacts on families with a student parent though - that could be a downside.

£10,000 p.a. Equates to 29 hours a week at the minimum wage, not 12.5 hours a week.

A full time childcare place in a nursery in London is £14k a year so two children rae £28k. If you have three as we did, under 4, then getting a daily nanny £25k to £30k) is cheaper. £1200 is a kind of laughable joke which is only compensating middle earners for losing child benefit and a crude attempt for Cameron the arch sexist to regain some of the female vote which he has already utterly lost through low numbers of women in the cabinet, calm down dear etc etc It is not coming in for 2 years and only applies initially to under 5s and is operated in a differnt way for those who earn tax credits. I am not sure why he bothered.

However to the extent it encourages women into full time work and benefits their position in feminist terms by eradicating housewives then it is good. I would rather a working parent had childcare help than a housewife.

So who will actually benefit? Errrrrrrr..............

A couple both earning over £10,000 but with childcare costs in line with the pitiful £6000 AND who have more than one under 5 in childcare in 2015.

And not benefiting - anybody who works part time or studies or doesn't work at all, anybody claiming vouchers by two parents for only one child, anybody with children over the age of 5 but still in childcare.........

Typical tories - both stupid and mean!

If one parent earns a higher wage then the family isn't eligible for these tax credits, I for example work part time in social care for a minimum wage, but my husband has a well paid job and we receive no tax credits. If I can't get help with child care I can't work though as we are not that well off. Surely my work is important even though it is badly paid. So it seems I must work full time or not at all.

Forgive me if im totally wrong here.

www.hmrc.gov.uk/specialist/sal-sac-question-and-answers.htm

But i remember a warning when entering into voucher scheme that salary sacrafice means you dimishing you pension in later life so its just moving money over time ie fowards to help give relief on childcare.

The fact the flipping costs have to be paid upfront and then claimed back a pain in arse.

But I gather the new cb rules between 50-60k tapers off so they wmay get cb then have to pay it back.

Seems like lots extra work for inland revenue.

I not happy almost makes me want to vote labour.

Glad some of you see my point of veiw about only 1parent working.

did anyone see something like 1800 people applied for 8part time jobs at costa coffee thetes not enough jobs for people who want work never mind forcing every sahm mum onto job market.

As a sahm mum I feel made to feel bit worthless like im a non person a shirker.

We get to keep cb just.

we struggle each month putting our toddlers in preschool education is our choice and its a finacial sacrafice we do it as good for their development.

Some preschool sessions only 2.5hours so lost walking to and from school.

I wanted to go back to uni but cant afford the childcare and also cant afford the 9k a year tuition as be my 2nd degree.

My other 2options are min wage job which wants full flexibility and on paper my qualifications and expereince pre kids make me overqualifued under 21s are cheaper.

option 3self employment which been trying to get off ground this year but been so skint as had childcare, car tax, kids needed new clothes, other unexpected bills as everythings going up thankfully rents not.

We are squeezed middle -guess they think middle class parents wont protest or riot just quietly accept it..

husband pays tax and ni, we lost tax credits we get child benefit no housing on private rental havent got chance in hell gettting social cant afford to buy.

I use local nursery 1day a week for middle child so therefore helping fund local economy.

I also send her to state preschool which like most is a charity.
As acharity cannot run without a committee then I got talked into volunteering as treasurer which takes up more time and stress then I would like, numbers are already down as people waiting for funding. Started dd2 in spet as she was 3 in sept and had to pay £500 fees for term 1 and 2 for 1.5 days a week which is cheap compared to some areas as the grant fundings term after 3rd birthday.

As shes misfortune being 16days past 31st august she cant start school until next september which means more time paying childcare as eldest started at 4.5 yes you can defer but not push them foward.

The grant funding runs 38weeks a year and nursery 51weeks a year claim 2sessions at nursery so have to top up anyway hence why use vouchers in 1st place as was hoping to start dd3 as hes 2 next month.

Childcare vouchers can also be used in private schools I think.

I worry all 3kids wont get decent school place.
new school we had to move as old one was failing does not have an after school club or a holiday club has breckfast club.

Looked round a few local schools and not many state ones are working family freindly so most use childminders or go private hich offers wrap around.

Its easier to have a younger child in day nursery 8-6

When I worked full time after petrol, full time nursery fees hardly see bchild or husband dident make it worth working.

I envy people who have family that help even know 1lady whos company has nursery on site she has well paid job and her husbands a teacher and despite having 2kids in childcare its worth their while as they both high earners.

feel like its all about timing and I always too late to everything

I was 1st year of tuition fees and student loan
I dident buy a house when I should have

Had couple unlucky breaks in career got sidelined for promotion when on maternity when returned full time got treated so badly I left. Retail by way so they expect bank holidays, nights and weekends.

wanted to retrain to be social worker but cant afford to do that.

Husband works 50+_hours most weeks this week unexpected 2days up north. my family not hands on and over hour away hardly see the kids.

Anyway must dash have to make flip[ping easter bonnet, that was on top of commic relef and world book day and they break up here on friday. 3kids is a very busy job as 2schools.1.2miles apart by foot as buses so blooming expensive, clubs, homework, holidays, housework, washing its neverending.

I understand they want more people to go work but feels like another kick to a group already had a few kicks.

There are some advantages to the scheme over childcare vouchers:

It will be available to the self employed and won't be dependent upon your employer offering childcare vouchers. I believe it is only a small number of employers who currently offer childcare vouchers. My husband is going to try to persuade his employers to offer childcare vouchers (as we are expecting our first child in August) but there is no certainty they will. If they refuse, we won't get anything at all towards our childcare as I am self employed.

The disadvantages would seem to be that the amount of saving for parents is reduced, as the maximum per saving per household will be £1200 per year.

Currently, with childcare vouchers, a couple who are both basic rate tax payers each get a saving of £933 per year, so £1866. Higher rate tax payers get £623 each.

However, those already signed up to childcare voucher scheme won't lose out as they can continue to receive the vouchers rather than switch to the new scheme.

I think the idea is a good one because it benefits everyone who works, not just those who are lucky enough to have employers signed up to the scheme but the government needs to look at the figures (re: average childcare costs) properly as they are completely to cock!

Sorry if this has been said already (haven't had time to read the whole thread) but one paragraph in the bbc article on this says:

"Parents who already claim child care vouchers through the old scheme will be able to continue to do so if they wish"

It is just going to be closed to new claimants. Not great for the new claimants but for those of you worried about the huge financial impact that this new scheme would have on your existing set up, it sounds like you can choose to keep your vouchers.

ProbablyJustGas raises a valid point - if they will only pay out when both parents work, what will happen in blended families? If dad and mum work but step-mum doesn't, for example? Horribly complicated.

www.mumsnet.com/jobs/tax-free-childcare-scheme-explained mumsnet link

Are there any restrictions?
Yes each parent must earn less than £150,000 a year. So two parents in one family earning£299,999.98 jointly will still be eligible.
300k!

so 2people on 99k get cb kept and this fab.

at moment current scheme gives lower rate for higher rate tax payers.not to mention slight cut in higher rate tax in april.

wonder if mps household salary is this as dave and sam both work.
Then theres the balls family
nick clegg and miriam.

Under the new scheme, parents can claim £1,200 per child, per year, towards the cost of childcare. This means a potential loss of £660 a year for those families currently saving £1,866 (ie basic rate tax payers with one child), but gains for families of basic rate tax payers with more than one child, and for higher-rate tax payers, because unlike the current childcare vouchers, the new scheme won't be means-tested.

combined with fact each paret has to earn min of 10k

cant be used initially for 5-12 year olds.

theres much less flexibility than old system.

Its not really like tax credits we not really just being given money to top up outr low wages.

hubbys entered into salary sacrafice where they take money from his wages and saves not a massive amount on tax.

They could have reformed current system or mad childcare tax decuctable.

wonder if they bring in married couples next?
have no idea how much that save.

ind it odd we taxed as indivuals but when it comes to benefits its measured differently.

www.mumsnet.com/jobs/tax-free-childcare-scheme-explained mumsnet link

mam29 that's not how pension works re salary sacrifice. I just took my calculator out and went our intranet benefits page. I confirmed that the contribution of myself and my company is using my base salary. That is the salary I get before salary sacrifices and bonuses. Therefore, doing salary sacrifice does not affect my pensions at all.

If you are talking about NI contributions, yes, then you need to make sure you are still contributing enough. But correct me if I'm wrong. If you don't earn enough to make salary sacrifices for childcare vouchers and private pensions, then you are probably entitled to working tax credits. In that case you are not advised to take the vouchers anyway.

Popping in to let you know - as I see mam29 has already done - that we've put together a brief piece on the new scheme, who's eligible, how you apply etc.

Thanks one little toddler think I was confusing tax with ni as remember some sort of warning.

under new scheme if I stay at home I cant use them
if i go back or become self employed and earn under 10k cant use them

really I could only go back part time which not sure would equal 10grand a year.

If I vcant get 1 job and get 2part time jobs then think I pay higher rate tax on 2nd job.

If I earnt low wage still couldent be eligible for tax credits as hubby earns too much.

Theres so many conditions that would be hard to meet in a good economy never mind now and also assume childcares readily availaible.

Unlike mps we dont get time off during term time.

I said all along that the gov would do this. They are traditionally supportive of the nuclear family with a sahp. Even as a sahm I don't agree with this, it just seems they are out to screw many people.
It just seems such a shame that those on the highest pay get to keep their benefit whilst those at the bottom are losing theirs.
So sorry to those who will be forced out of work.
I think the only people who don't lose are sahp's whose partners receive Tax credits and are low income as they only get cb.

While this is a terrible policy for many reasons, what many people posting here are missing is that if you are already in the childcare vouchers scheme then you can continue with the old scheme, so at least you will not lose out that way.

This scheme is bad for - people paying more than the basic rate of tax, people with only one child in childcare, people who use childcare vouchers to pay for their school aged children's pre/post school care, families with a sahp.

This scheme is good for - people whose company didn't offer childcare vouchers.

It seems to have been thought up by people who have no idea about the needs of working families, and no idea of the real costs of childcare.

Great news for the self employed at last.
Also those already in childcare vouchers can continue if that is better for them.
And VERY important point - the tax saving of the new scheme is per child! Hurrah for that.
And single parents get the new scheme.

There is a lot of good in this new scheme. Lets not knock it all for the sake of it.

Kradlum, you can only stay with the existing scheme if you stay with your current employer. As soon as either DH or I moved to a different employer then we would have to move to the new scheme and if they don't roll it out immediately to over 5s then we would get nothing as our children will be school age in 2015

I just can't believe that they're giving a tax subsidy to families earning up to 300k, but removing child benefit from single income families on 50 - 60k. I thought they said that families on 50k were affluent. Well what the bloody hell are families on up to 300k then? Deserving I suppose

spickles - I think everyone is in support of extending childcare subsidies to those who currently aren't eligible. But that's pretty much the only good thing about this new system, and they could just as easily extend what is already in place to everyone.

We stand to lose support completely if DH changes jobs. So that means he's chained to his current employer now until I resume work after my degree.

So if you don't mind I will knock this new scheme.

I do not understand how they can not have a ceiling on earnings for this but have one for child benefit. What on earth are they doing? Seems to me they keep working on messing things up just to create work for themselves ie to keep themselves in work.

I know.

Boris said those on 50-60 were wealthy so not eligible for CB but those on a joint income of 100 still are and now those on 300 are eligible for help with childcare.

If a family on 300k isn't wealthy what is it?

Can answer that myself- super rich!