Nurseries versus Childminders

[Annalise]

Hi, this is my first post, and I was hoping some of you will be able to tell me your views, and help me out on a difficult decision.

I am due to go back to work soon, and I have decided to go back full time (I was part-time before I had my second son), mainly for money reasons.

My parents will look after both my sons for 3 days, and the other two days I need to find childcare for them.

My problem, is, as you may have guessed, I can't decide between a Childminder or a Private nursery.

My eldest son is 2, and my younger one is 5 months. I like the idea of more activities and interaction with other children for my eldest, as he would get at a nursery. But I worry about my youngest not getting enough one-to-one and attention in a nursery baby room.

On the other hand, a Childminder would probably be able to give my little one more one-to-one, and I feel (well, hope) it would be a more 'loving' environment than in a nursery where you get staff changes, etc.

My concerns about a Childminder, however, probably stem from a lot of these tv programmes you see about 'nannies from hell', etc.
I feel really worried about leaving my boys in the sole care of someone who is completely unsupervised, and could lose her temper with them, mistreat them, or worse. Obviously I would meet them first and have visits, but the people who's children were abused and mistreated on these programmes thought their nanny was ok, and trusted her when they met her.

Sorry, I am probably being a really paranoid and over-the-top mum here, but I can't stop worrying about it.

Can anyone tell me their experiences of Nursery/Childminder and how contented their children are there to allay my fears?

Hiya - My ds has been in a private nursery since he was 18wks old. The baby to adult ratio in the baby rooms is very good. You must look at that when considering the Nursery and you'll see that each baby gets quite a lot of attention. A childminder will maybe have someone elses children there too so it doesn't have to mean they will get more cuddles.

DS loves his Nursery and talks about the girls there all the time. And when he sees them in the street he always gets excited and gives them a wee cuddle.

I enjoy that fact that he gets to play with lots of children his own age.

Its such a personal choice, but I would not go to a childminder now after seeing the benefits and the wonderful results at the Nursery.

Welcome Annalise

I am sure everyone of us on Mumsnet has pondered this situation when going back to work - I did and had numerous debates over it with different people. I opted for a childminder for the "one to one" reason. But my search was long and sometimes hard. Get a list of Goverment Registered childminders in your area - call them up and make arrangements to see some of them - I saw lots and if you meet them in their own homes you can pick up quite alot. My childminder is great and very loving towards all the children she minds (5) 3 go to school though. The door is always open and you can walk in as and when you want - so she is not worried about being caught out doing anything sinister. She takes the children on all sorts of activities and has a weekly sheet for the activities they will be doing, like friday's is music day. I like the fact that "television" isn't always on to keep them occupied. The only downfall is if she is ill or needs a day off - but if your parents are nearby would they be able to cover? I have no experience of Nursery but can understand your comment about interaction - if you did choose a childminder is there not a play school you could enrol your eldest son in - that the childminder can take him to? Hope this helps.

dd1 (3 and a half) and dd2 (8 months) go to a nursery which dd1 was at from 7 months. I'm thrilled with it, and love the interaction with other children/adults they get. dd2 is by far the youngest in her room but gets to see her sister a lot and the quality of childcare is very good. most childminders I know have more than one to look after, so they don't get that much one-to-one, if that's what you want I'd go for a nanny. it's a very personal choice, but I am very happy wtih the option we went for, even though it's working out pricey with 2 at nursery.

The nursery I have in mind is within walking distance of my mum and dad's, so it would be easy for them to pick up the children if need be.

My eldest is only just 2, so too young for playgroups as he would have to be 2.5?

I don't really know of any childminders, although I will send for the list, and a friend who used to be part of a network of Childminders, but has changed career, might be able to recommend.

DD went to a day nursery at 6months and then a school nursery at 2y6m. She has thrived, but I think this is partly because we found the right place for her. Her day nursery was actually small (in terms of number) with a max of 24 kids, there was never more than 6 babies/kids in one room. There were staff changes but some staff were there all through and TBH I think the staff changes bothered us more than her. She only left because we moved to the other end of the country!
We chose nursery because it eemed safer, and oddly enough because I didn't feel a replica of a home envt was actually necessary. Like you I had concerns about childminders (and whilst I'm sure there are good ones, there is one on this site, Alibubbles whose set-up sounds fantastic) my experiences of childminders were quite negative.

Everyone coments on how out-going and confident DD is, and i'm sure that this is in part attributable to her going to nursery.

I suppose ideally, if I went for a Childminder, she would have quite a small group, say 3 including my sons, and the 3rd would be school age.
Probably would be difficult to match that exact spec though...

My 21 month old daughter attends nursery and has done since she was 10 weeks. She is thriving there and adores it, always has done from day one. She has gained som much from going - twice a week.The girls who look after her are lovely, although quite young. There are stanff changes as the girls at our nursery move around between the four rooms for their own experience/training. But the staff turnpver overall is low. The girls absolutely love DD and she them.

DD is bright, happy, affectionate, sociable and into everything. Her language skills are excellent and I am sure much of her devleopment is down to the experiences and opportunies she gets at nursery.

I would definitely not change my decision and feel that nursery was the best choice for us; in fact one of the best decision we ever made.

BTW, whatever you choose you won't stop worrying about it until they are settled. But it gets easier with each day they are there and when you see how much they get out of it.

I think you are right, Hulababy, I will worry anyway!
I'm not as worried about my 2 year old, as I know he will enjoy a couple of days with other children, my baby seems so young though...

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Annalise - my girl was only 20 weeks but she was really well taken care of. The girls cuddled her, talked to her, played with her. There was 6 babies in the class maximum and at least 2 girls. They all had some one to one time. You should be able to go to 'taster' sessions to build baby up to it too so it doesn't have to be all at once. Good luck with your choice whatever you decide on.

Annalise, the advantage of a childminder for your children would be that they are looked after together as siblings. In a nursery your baby would be in the baby room and your older son in the toddler/older childrens rooms.

I know for a fact from nursery nurses locally that the two children would not see each other, ever, during the day. At a recent training course it was suggested to nursery nurses about vertically grouping children ie family grouping, they threw up their hands in horror and said it couldn't be done. We asked if it was not possible for siblings to visit each other, the NN's said if they did that, what would happen to the other children in their care. A NN is also responsible for 3 babies under one, a childminder may only have 1 under 1 and 2 under 5 in her care at anyone time. I have a friend who has her two in a local nursery and they only see each other morning and night at delivery and collection time.

How can a NN give 3 babies undivided attention? I make sure that each child in my care has some undivided attention everyday, when the baby is sleeping, I do special things with the toddler and when the toddler is resting, baby spends most of her time on my lap with books, doing finger rhymes, talking, tickling, cuddling. just being a baby! In 4 months we have developed a very special bond, she is delighted to see me every morning when I pick her up from her house, we wave bye bye to both parents on her doorstep and she is smiling away,

I do think nurseries have a lot to offer for older children (2+) but feel strongly that a baby is better off in an home environment. They can sleep when they want to, eat when they want to, they don't have to be in the nursery routine.

I understand your concerns about nannies, but childminders are not nannies and cannot be compared in the same vein with" nannies from hell" type documentaries, designed to scare every parent out of their wits about their childcare choice.

Most childminders are mums, nannies are not, mums have been there, got the experience and can cope. We are fiercely regulated, I spent 3.5 hours with an Ofsted inspector this morning, who turned over every stone and opened every cupboard, lifted the loo seat, checked my cot linen, locks, sheds, carseats, pushchairs etc, and the asked about my routine, what I cooked etc.

I told her about going to the farm to get the meat, seeing 20 minute old lambs, going to the fish shop, 'Peter the fish,' getting out giant fish for them to look at, and I mean huge halibut and tuna 3 feet long, choosing our fish etc.

The inspector had worked in many nurseries and said, you cannot however hard you try, recreate those experinces in a nursery. The children went out once in the three years she worked in one. No puddle jumping, leaf kicking, duck feeding, library visits, trips out to lunch, visiting friends, swimming, we even take our little ones sailing ( see pic on my website) and as my husband flies, to the local airfield to explore the planes.

Okay, most people know how passionate I am about childcare, so I'll get off my high horse now and wish you luck

Wesbite for childcare and nurseries by postcode search, and look for someone who has been part of a quality assurance/ standards scheme -kitemark in childcare here

Try again childcare

I think you've really got to weigh up what is most important for you. We chose nursery for DS and he has always loved it. He started going at 15 weeks and is now coming up three. Its probably partly down to his personality but he seems to thrive on the structured atmosphere and adores being with other children. Was ever so excited about going back today after Christmas hols. Personally I think babies (and most nurseries have a separate baby room) will get as much attention at nursery as from a childminder because that is all the nursery nurses do whereas a childminder might want to load the washing machine, take a phone call, go to the shops etc. I'm not invalidating doing these things - but thats what he can do on the days I'm not working and what your kids would do with your parents. Just my POV.

Siblings are our nursery do 'visit' each other a couple of times each day even if only for a few moments. In the summer this is often combined with outdoor play too, allowing siblings to play together.

Have to say in response to some of alibubbles comments that a) I'm not sure all childminders are as committed/well-resourced as she is b) in the baby room at DS's nursery the kids could eat/sleep to their own routine.

I was lucky enough to have my best friend and my mum childmind for me so I can't really comment.
If you could find someone like Alibubbles I'd say for younger children / babies childcare is great.
All of my working mum friends have used childcare and the childcarer has become a huge part of their lives / family.

I'm going to put Lottie in a Montessori nursey when she is 2.5 for the mornings and then in the afternoon childcare will be divided between my dad, mum and me.

Annalise, I childmind part-time and also send my ds, 20mths, to a childminder who has been caring for him since he was 4mths old. I have only recently become a registered childminder myself, and admit that when I was first looking for care for my son I was of the impression that a nursery environment would be best for him. When I actually visited the local nurseries I was even more upset at the thought of having to go back to work, as the baby room environment with so many different adult carers seemed so remote from the intense one to one breastfeeding experience he had previously been enjoying with me. I started to investigate childminders and was very very impressed with what I saw. The inspection and registration process is as rigorous as any nursery, and is done by ofsted who leave no stone unturned. The support and training available to childminders is fantastic, and I could not be happier with the care and environment in which I leave my son. From the minute I drop him off he wanders around the house finding his favourite corners and toys as if he is a part of the family. He has regular normal everyday routines like going to the post-office or to the shops, and joins in local toddler groups, Christmas parties and frequent day trips.
You have asked for individual experiences, and these are some of mine. I know that nurseries suit some families very well, and it does take a bit of legwork and research to find the best solution for each individual family and child. But my own recommendation must be to go for a childminder.

Some nurseries might be as Alibubbles describes without outings, contact with siblings, etc - but certainly not all of them.

DS is at a small nursery where the children do get to go outside on walks - including plenty of puddle jumping, and in the summer even fountain splashing - every day that the weather is up to it. In the summer they seem to spend more time outside than in.

They also go on trips - they've been to the on-site steam railway, to a Christmas tree farm, for a ride on a horse and cart, to the zoo, etc in the last few months. Oh and the children of all ages are together for three meals a day, and are allowed to mix in the pre-breakfast/post-tea and outdoor (but in the grounds) play sessions.

In the two years ds has been there not one member of staff has left, nearly all of them are mothers themselves, and probably the majority are 30+ rather than just out of college

I'd certainly say that if you ask the right questions and find the right nursery then there is no reason why you can't have all these things if that is what you want.

My son was much happier with childminder. In nurseries the staff have tea breaks, holidays, etc. Nursery was also much more welded to routine, which bored my child. Better working conditions for staff in nursery... but I think my son needed a consistent single person as his carer. But now for after we move, I am signing up children for nursery, just in case, reluctantly, because I can't be sure of getting a childminder who can take 2 children under 3, and it's more likely I'll find a nursery that can take 2; what a pain!

Just wanted to add also that some nurseries WILL allow siblings to visit each other during the course of the day. I had 2 children at one time at the nursery and whenever it was one of their birthdays and they had a "birthday circle" the other would go and visit and share cake. With regard to staff ratio, we always have one extra staff member in our room, who acts as a "floater" to cover all rooms at any point in the day.

Our nursery also have outings - not that often - but we do more so for the older children (3-5s).

Plus, the babies in the baby unit sleep and eat whenever they want - a good nursery SHOULD always follow the routine the baby/parents set, rather than fit in the baby around the nursery.

zebra

Nursery staff have tea breaks???? I don't have a tea break at all - I grab a drink of water whilst the children are eating their snack/drink. I eat my sandwiches with the children eating their lunch.

Having said that, I finish at 2.30pm - if I did a full day then I would obviously have an 1 hour lunch break out of the nursery.

Obviously it depends on how the nursery gets run... I know ours tried to let the staff have tea-breaks, and my 2 children saw each other at least 3x/day, and the children got out most days things that other people are saying they didn't like in their nursery. I was only talking about why I felt like my son didn't bond, didn't like nursery, and I think why the CM ended up being a better choice (for him). Conversely, My big fear about CM, though, is trust you are depending so much more on one person to be a good carer. If my child was winding someone up I know there must be more opportunities to blow off steam and have a laugh about stress in the nursery situation. I am paranoid about Shaken Baby syndrome... That's why I went for nusery, intially.

It's really impossible to give hard and fast facts, isn't it, because there are good and bad nurseries, and good and bad childminders. My children were both very happy at nursery right through from babyhood (although admittedly mornings only). Like others, my experience was not as alibubbles reported- my children saw each other regularly as the older ones were allowed to visit the babies at least once a day. They used to go in pairs to sing to the babies or on their own to "help". The babies always had lots of cuddles and lots of lovely imaginative activites (crawling in their vests and nappies over lots of different textures, plenty of heuristic play, very few plastic toys). However, this happy experience can't possibly be generalised, any more than for one good childminder.

All I would say is firstly you will probably get a good gut feeling about the right place for your children when you see it, whatever it is, and secondly just be prepared for the fact that it may take the children longer to settle, particularly at nursery, if they're only there two days a week.

Good luck, I hope you find the perfect solution!

Hi Annalise,

I am fairly new to mumsnet too. Hi!

I belive that as with so many things this is such an individual choice. If you choose either the Nursery or the Childminder with care (i.e. follow all the sugggestions already given re: registration, visits, etc.) then your children will probably be happy and well looked after at either. What you need to consider is what will allow you the most comfort and feeling of ease? Because if you are not happy with your choice then it won't work! You will constantly be on edge and unahppy with the arrangment.

I personally used a private Nursery and DD (now 3.5) thrived. Lots of trips, outside play etc. And importantly when still ickle lots of cuddles.
The reason we didn't use a childminder was the lack of local support we had if for any reason the childminder was unable to look after her. That has now changed as we have moved much nearer PsIL and my parents have returned from abroad. I am contemplating a childminder for #2 who can also provide afterschool care for #1.

Good Luck!!

Can a digress slightly and ask a similar question? Not yet sure of the etiquette of MN yet so please tell me to bog off and start a new thread if more appropriate!

In my reply to Annalise I indicated that I am thinking of using a childminder for after school care for DD - mainly because I have this idea that after a day at school it would be better for her to be able to relax rather than have more 'fun' and activities in the afterschool club run by the school. What are your experiences/views on that?

Thanks.