journalism courses

[Rian]

Has anyone tried any correspondence journalism courses - e.g the Writers Bureau college of journalism? I'm tempted, but unsure as to whether they are really worth the money. Would welcome views from anyone who's actaully tried one.

I am currently (very slowly) doing a freelance writing course with the London School of Journalism (www.lsj.org) and quite frankly have been a bit disappointed. I have only done 4 out of 12 assignments in a year as it can be quite hard to fit them in around the kids (and I don't even work or anything!) especially as some of them involve things like going to sports events (ie without the kids) or interviewing people. I'm a bit disappointed as it was advertised as a course that could be done very much at home at any time of day when in reality you have to have some child-free time to go out and about. Having said that I think I've lost my motivation and maybe if you're more committed to the idea of journalism than me you would get a lot more out of it as it is certainly rewarding to get your assignments back and have the feedback from the tutor etc. I think it all depends how much free time you have and what you want to get out of it!

Rian - this is only vaguely related, so not sure how much it will help. I've done a bit of work in publishing, and wanted to get into freelance editing, but it is tough to actually get the work until you have experience. Through some contacts and downright cheekiness, I managed to persuade a publisher to pay for my correspondence course as an advance against earnings .. that way they have some commitment to me, and it's a foot in the door. That said, they haven't ACTUALLY given me any work yet ... grrr..., but they keep promising!

That said, I really enjoyed the course, it was stimulating and challenging. ... not all courses are. Before you pay up, it's worth chatting with someone in the industry as to which courses have a good reputation, and which don't.

As someone who commissions a lot of freelance writers, I'd say most courses are a complete waste of time. At the risk of sounding like one of those gritty trade union dramas, if you're interested in working as a journalist, it's experience that counts. (If it's more that you fancy doing a course, then go ahead.) One of the saddest things i see is all the letters that arrive at the office from people who've done those proof-reading courses advertised in the Guardian and think we'll just send our proofs to a total stranger with no expertise in our field. And pay them £25/hr or whatever it is the adverts say.

Sorry for being nosey Dannie, but can you give us a clue as to who you work for?

......and what sort of writing you look for?

exactly!

ALOHA! how did you get your start? And you other freelancers, how did you get yours? Willow2, I thought you know something about this?

My friend who is a journalist (radio and TV, although I think he did print before now) told me to write, write, write and write some more as practice. Copy what I liked (the format, not the content) and go from there. But that was just to learn. I try to write, but it's hard at the moment due to evil 2 yo. Still a goal, though. My dream is to be published on Salon. (Just because I love that site.) Have never tried to submit, though. (They, at least, seem to encourage submissions.)

oooh, forgot the most important part of what he told me: get published. It doesn't matter where. Work up from that.

I edit specialised political/economic publications, and I'm speaking purely for myself, not making any sweeping claims about journalism as a whole, but I look for writers who know what they're talking about and can explain it clearly. How much of that is nature, and how much nurture, I don't know. I do think some courses have created a product the consumer may not need for the sake of making money. (My main beef against The Writers Bureau is probably that they advertise on the back of the Guardian tv guide. This may be irrational prejudice)

I must admit as someone who spent ages trying to ge my first break in advertising copywriting, I look at those media course ads with suspician too. Where are the jobs for these new recuits?

However, I admit I did do a year's full time course at college( not quite the same thing I know) which resulted in work placements after. The course gave me contacts, the beginnings of a portfolio and built my confidence.

JJ sorry to be so dim, but I thought salon was a current affairs website with a rather erudite discussion area. Obviously I was wrong.

Tigermoth, yes, it's a current affairs website. They do seem to encourage submissions, though I don't know how often they publish them. (Probably a very very low percentage of the time.)

Dannie, you don't want any social affairs stuff do you ?

FWIW, I got started through 10 years running press offices in the voluntary sector, ie building up a sort of specialised knowledge of things like disability and community care; I did a few evening courses at the London College of Printing, which I would recommend; then took the plunge about 5 years ago, quit my job running the press/PR at Centrepoint (youth homelessness charity); took p/time job with little think-tank to pay bills etc (through which I incidentally met dp); wrote for pretty well anyone who'd have me, which meant lots of in-house charity mags, and built up from there. Sold first piece to Guardian Society just before having dd1. Came back from 4 months off and decided to make proper go of selling things to women's mags (realised I was turning into embittered old bag thinking 'I could have written that' and decided to get off bum and DO IT THEN); rather to my surprise succeeded...now on second maternity leave but I have a mixture of in-house/membership mags to pay the bills (couple of charities, one trade union), some specialised editing about stuff like mental health and learning disability, and then selling other more enjoyable/frivolous/better paid articles on top of that.

HTH?

Thanks for the thought, I'll bear it in mind (honest!), though right now I'm too pg to commission a Sainsbury's list successfully. I'm hoping no one will notice

JJ, I started many many years ago as an editorial assistant (glorified secretary) and worked longer hours than the journalists and seized opportunities and went to the opening of an envelope to make contacts. I then did lots of jobs in magazine journalism, so when I decided to go freelance I had a lot of contacts and experience so it was pretty easy by then. What would I recommend? Well, I rarely commissioned anyone I didn't know. BUT if someone came to me with a great story that I couldn't resist and that I hadn't seen anywhere else, which had a twist, and, ideally access that nobody else could get then I'd go for it. In practise that might mean a personal story which was shocking/fascinating/topical - I got my rapist locked up/I met my husband as we fought to escape a sinking ship etc. Or a story based on case histories - "the photograph that changed my life' - four women reveal blah blah - one who saw a pic of her boyfriend in a a friend's snaps - she didn't know they knew each other and realised they were having an affair! The woman who saw a picture of man and went all out to meet him and is now married to him, and a woman who saw a pic of herself at 15 stone on holiday and lost five stone as a consequence - that sort of thing. That's exactly the kind of feature experienced freelancers avoid because they are so difficult to set up which is why they are always welcome, even from inexperienced writers. Also something just great - like the woman who told me about the website where strangers evaluate your looks based on a photo you send it. I'd never heard of the site, but she volunteered her personal story of how she and her friends felt when they did it. That story got picked up and copied everywhere.
I thought the idea of writing about the Mumsnet meet-ups was excellent - someone here was doing it for The Times but I don't know if they eventually got it published. It's just interesting that virtual friendships were becoming real. I think papers may accept new writers with good ideas more than magazines, just because they need more material as they are dailies. Look for specific sections - eg parenting etc and think up loads and loads of ideas. Ideas are even more important than writing ability. If you have an unusual personal story and you don't mind it being known, that can be a great way in. Journalistic writing has to be easy to read, direct, and get the information over clearly. I also recommend the London College of Printing - did a brief course there aons ago - and the City Lit. HTH!

Topical is also good. Ie if you too have broken up a relationship due a prenup (a la J Lo) you would definitely get commissioned to write about it. Or if you were 46 and pregnant at the same time as Cherie Blair, ditto. Read the newspapers and think if you have an experience that is genuinely unusual and interesting that mirrors something in the news.

Thank you Aloha! That was amazingly helpful. (That's to be read seriously, not sarcastically... and the thanks is heartfelt.)

Also, agree, get published anywhere. Your NCT newsletter, local free magazines, etc. If you possibly can, ask for work experience on small scale publications where they might value unpaid help. If you are an expert on anything - from Agas to Astrophysics, you have a head start. Write about that first. Pitching a story is best done IMO by email or letter (well, it's what I preferred - hated being cold called). Introduce yourself, give a brief working title of your proposed feature plus a very brief outline of how it works. Say if you already have case studies. Never pitch to a magazine of any kind without reading it first (you'd be amazed who does) and make sure your idea will fit the bill. At its most basic it means no articles about the menopause in Cosmo - unless you or someone you know had it at 28. Before you suggest a parenting/gardening related feature, make sure they do actually cover those subjects. It's not an easy field to get into, admittedly and it can be ageist, but if you really, really want to give a chance then you should try. thirtysomething, I think the issue here is that if you did get any journalism work it probably would involve going out from time to time - though I do just about everything from home I am on the phone all time and it's not possible to seem professional with a two year old chatting away, so I have three day a week childcare.

As an NCT newsletter I'd be pleased for anyone to send me a relevant story on their experience of pregnancy, labour, birth or early parenthood.

I almost applied for a job recently as editor of an in-house magazine and they asked me to send examples of my recent published work. Since I write a lot of articles for our newsletter I asked if copies of that would be suitable and the reaction was very positive.

Ooops - that should read 'as an NCT newsletter editor...'

Also, find out who you should be pitching to on any publication(commissioning editor/features editor/editor of particular page/slot); and in your email/written approach be as professional as possible - one journalist approaching another (I felt terribly fraudulent doing this at the beginning but it did seem to work). Once you've been published anywhere worth mentioning, make that clear. I did find that relentless attempts to pitch zippy ideas, followed by relentless ringing ('did you get my email? Oh dear, shall I send it again?' did pay off.