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Original poster

Working mothers lambasted again!!

266 replies

Missmibaby · 04/10/2005 11:26

Has anyone seen The Times today? Yet more articles telling us that wokring mothers are bad for their kids development. Isn't it funny how all the examples they use are middle-class women who left well-paid jobs, who are married to husbands with extremely well-paid jobs: bankers, lawyers, media-types. One of the headlines was that a woman didn't go back to work until her children were ten years old. The article then went to explain how she worked from her attic whilst employing full-time nannies! Real world? Not for most of us. I am the main wage-earner in our house. My DP is on £20,000 per year and our mortgage is c.£10,000 per year. What little luxuries would anyone recommend we cut back on if I were to give up work. Beleive me I do nothing but think about my son all day, I would love to be with him. I have another on the way and am trying to think of ways that I can work less. My son has always been cared for by well-chosen loving people. The childcare arrangements have changed very little inhis short life and I think he is a well-balanced, sociable, well-advanced little boy. I think the most important thing that he has in his life is that I love him to bits and I make sure he knows it!! Sorry for the rant I know it's not mumsnet faultbut but these generalisations make me so

I don't think women who stay at home are better or worse than women who go to work. It's how they treat thei kids that matters.

OP posts:
muminlondon · 06/10/2005 14:15

or even 12! when is it they're allowed to be on their own in the house? with any luck DH will be retired by then and can take over.

Caligula · 06/10/2005 18:59

Ah, but you can't specify "love" in a job description, can you?

aloha · 06/10/2005 19:01

No, sadly. That is the big problem with it for me. I wish you could. That's really why in the end, pre-nursery, I had my mum looking after ds. She worships the ground he walks on. I suspect his childminder didn't even like him much
I do know other people who have childminders and certainly nannies, who do appear to love their kids.

ThePrisoner · 06/10/2005 23:07

(Wearing childminder hat) - I currently have 10 and 11 year olds in my care, plus their younger siblings, who I have minded since they were small babies. They know that I am paid to look after them and that this is my "job", but I think they rather regard me as "extended family" now. My dh is always impressed by the way they float in and out of our house as if it is their own (which, in their eyes, I guess it is!)

I have met many parents who have opted for nursery-type care as they don't want their children to form a close attachment to a "single" carer (childminder/nanny). I would love to know why! (Any answers?)

uwila · 07/10/2005 12:44

Because parents are made to feel guilty about spending so much time at work (even when the children clearly aren't harmed by this). Then when there is a sole carer who sees your kid more than you do (and therefore knows him/her better than you), it makes you feel even worse. So parents reduce the gult by making sure no such person exists.

I, personally, feel this is a selfish position and I try to remember to do what's best for my kids even when it hurts my own ego. My DD used to scream bloody murder when I picked her up from the childminder. This was hurtful, but only to my ego. I tried to remember that if she liked it there, that was a good thing and I as the adult needed to get over the bruised ego.

Caligula · 07/10/2005 13:13

I tend to agree with Uwila. I think if you are going to leave your child with someone else, whether it's by choice or not, it's putting your own feelings before the interests of the child if you don't allow the child to build up a good bond with that carer. Children need to build good bonds with their carers, it makes the world secure for them.

Wordsmith · 07/10/2005 14:59

Just because there isn't a sole carer, ie a nursery situation where there are 3 or 4 carers the child regularly sees, doesn't mean the child doesn't build a bond with them. It just depends what type of care you want. Both my boys have benefited from group care but I can see how it may not suit some parents. One of my key requirements, other than my child's happiness and well-being, is that I can rely on continuity of care in ordere to run my business. I don't need to worry about the childminder falling ill and not being able to have my child, for example.

uwila · 07/10/2005 15:50

Wordsworth, I agree that there are plenty of good reasons to choose a nuresery. I was simply responding to why some parents them as a means to avoid a single bond with someone else. You obviously have chosen a nursery for other reasons.

Didn't mean to offend your choice. Sorry if it sounded as if I was lating nurseries on the whole.

TheRtHonBaronessEnidOBE · 07/10/2005 16:18

uwila i have to agree

I know people who have deliberatly NOT chosen a c/m to avoid this issue of the bond with another person

LadySSofD · 07/10/2005 16:34

I admire your honesty Uwila and as a childminder I agree with you.

Parents should remember we as the childcarers usually have our own families/lives and while we do get very fond of our charges we don't mind handing them back at the end of the day - much like when you leave your work. A close bond between carer and child should always be encouraged - for the childs sake.

Wordsmith · 07/10/2005 17:12

Good grief Uwila, didn't think for a minute you were criticising nurseries or me or anything, so no offence even guessed at!

TBH when I chose a nursery it was because it had been recommended to me by a friend - no-one recommended a childminder or anything and, typically, I had left it till the last minute to realise I would even need outside childcare! (I work from home - but it soon became clear that it wouldn't be compatible with a small child). So I hadn't even thought about it at all. If all these studies had been around 5 yrs ago when I was first looking for childcare goodness knows what I would have done. Panicked, probably.

FairyMum · 08/10/2005 15:08

We went with nursery at first quite simply because we found one we were happy with. We communicated well with and liked the teachers we met and it seemed to have happy children and generally a happy atmosphere. Before I found this particular one I went to see many childminders as well as other nurseries which didn't for various reasons feel right for us.
My main concerns about childminders would be that they often seem to have quite few children under school-age as well as doing the school run for older children. I would prefer my children to be in an environment with age-appropriate toys, activities and tv-programmes. I don't know the benefit for smaller children of doing the school run every day picking up older children come rain or shine and I would worry that some of these children might intimidate mine.
Secondly, I would worry about medical emergencies. Does the childminder have a backup plan if she has to rush off to hospital or call an ambulance for a child? Does she have a neighbour who is always available to come over and be with the rest of the children? (We have been in this situation both at home and in nursery that's why I worry). Does the childminder know how to deal with choking? Mine have had quite a serious choking incident and whereas I am quite confident that among 20+ teachers and a manager at least one of them have experience of or will be able to deal with it, I am not sure I would trust a childminder even if she had been on a course.

ThePrisoner · 08/10/2005 15:30

I guess that being able to have the choice (nursery v childminder/nanny) is what is important to parents. What FairyMum considers the downside of a childminder (different-aged children together) is what someone else would consider a benefit.

I know childminders have to do regular first-aid courses specifically geared up to children, and I assume nursery workers have to do the same. And we are encouraged to have back-up emergency care plans. I guess it would be up to the parents, if they were choosing a minder, to be happy with whatever an individual childminder had on offer.

If you want someone who's had to have personal 1st-aid experience - I've had to deal with a choking child, have delivered next-door's baby (on my own) and rescusitated a man on street who had heart attack (I don't put any on that on my childminder's information sheet though as I'm not sure that it would be a particular selling feature!)

bakabat · 08/10/2005 19:54

well the CM I use is a paramedic so I trust her to deal with choking (far better than me - I panic). The nursery I use is small with mixed ages!

undercovermum · 08/10/2005 21:02

This is going to make me unpopular I know. Issysmum I remember now that you were adopting around the same time I had DS.

You actually adopted and have had 4 nannies. Why on earth did you adopt if you were going to use a nanny.

aloha · 08/10/2005 21:04

For exactly the same reason that people have children the usual way and still go to work. Duh.
What an idiotic question.
As it happens Issymum's husband has a progressive medical condition so it's quite a good idea that she continues to work.
And her children are absolutely lovely.

undercovermum · 08/10/2005 21:05

This is going to make me unpopular I know. Issysmum I remember now that you were adopting around the same time I had DS.

You actually adopted and have had 4 nannies. Why on earth did you adopt if you were going to use a nanny.

undercovermum · 08/10/2005 21:12

Sorry, why is that an idiotic question?

soapbox · 08/10/2005 21:13

You know I've often pondered a different question - why do they let thick people have children????

aloha · 08/10/2005 21:14

Why should adoptive parents be different to non-adoptive parents? For heavens sake, people have kids and go to work. Do you think that working mothers are less loved? Do you see that in your daily life? Because I don't.
Just because a family isn't like your family, does not make it an inferior family.

undercovermum · 08/10/2005 21:18

Because an adopted child has issues to contend with to start with.

a) They have normally been taken from their natural parent which is all they have ever known.

b) Their lives have already been filled with uncertainty so they should have stability with one parent at least.

As a child WHO WAS adopted, I think I am in a reasonable position to ask this question.

undercovermum · 08/10/2005 21:19

Soapbox are you adopted, no I didn't think so. So quit with the 'thick' innuendoes.

aloha · 08/10/2005 21:24

So you think she should have left the children in orphanages where no doubt they would have had much more wonderful lives than they clearly have with their adoring, committed, intelligent parents. Have you met her children? No? Then maybe you could be a little less unpleasant and personal in your tone.
I don't know why I'm bothering actually. Issymum is far more eloquent than I am.

soapbox · 08/10/2005 21:39

So you would rather have been left in a third world orphanage than adopted by a wonderful loving caring family and looked after by warm caring nannies????

Hardly rocket science is it????????

undercovermum · 08/10/2005 21:39

Like I posted earlier, I think that adopted children need a little more than 'born from natural parents' children as they have issues to contend with.

I truly believe that being at home with your mother for the first 12 years of your life is correct. Mum should be there at lunchtime (if you go home for lunch), after school, evenings and every day if you are sick. In fact Mum should be there! All of the time.

I know it and I bet most of the people on this website know it cos' their Mums stayed at home.

And yes I am a working Mum but I am kidding myself that it's right cos' it isn't, but I don't want to throw myself at the mercy of Welfare and live with people who are. Purely selfish I know but I wish more people would admit it.