Sarah Phillimore and Robin Moira White interviewed by Andrew Doyle

But then not both then

No. Not for him no. I enjoyed it.

I am so glad. My pity for people can be my undoing!

Yes. And by inference not just the rapists in women’s prisons.

So it is true what you vipers have been saying all along, that if this is debated properly, it will all unravel before our eyes.

Spero Thank you 💐

I have seen different views about this on Twitter. I have never seen an actual risk assessment so I don't know. All I will say is that women and their rights have been completely absent from the various policy documents I have looked at - so it would sadly not surprise me at all if the focus of any risk assessment was on male validation, rather than female safety.

Should we have a sweepstake on when the BBC will actually start to report on this properly. Or even better, the Guarinad?

BBC Wednesday 3.34pm

Guardian 2079

But,@LaughingPriest, if one race/ethnic group did in fact commit 98% of crime, or even one type of crime, against another such group I'd support separation of those groups.

Imagine - 98% of violent crime committed by white men against black men. Solution - lock the black guys up with the white. Nope. Plainly wrong. Or at least in any civilised society it would be wrong.

I have never seen an actual risk assessment so I don't know.

Is there any way to FOI the risk assessment criteria?

That is shocking, the a sense of clarity also shocking.

They are banding around "risk assessment" and it's not actually clear who's risk is being assessed.

RMW made the point that the situation came about due to the abuse and suicide of vulnerable trans identifying males in prison. Less vulnerable have gone on to abuse the loophole. Which indicates that it is all about the risk to the male where they are in mens prisons rather than where they're hoping to go to.

Yes, I felt that too but only when Robin was talking about wishing to have a woman’s voice and feeling the surgery was too risky because barristers’ voices are so important to their ability to do their job. However, someone else pointed out that this meant Robin had prioritised their job over the chance to appear more feminine which is a good point. After watching the interviewer a few days ago I did type out a post about all the spurious arguments Robin used, especially the apartheid one, but lost it!

I think the fact men are in women prisons at all shows the risk assessment is based on the risk to the man,

Another thanks from me too Sarah.

I wondered what this post meant then I watched it! Well done Sarah, so clear, calm and concise.

I couldn't watch any further robin's voice was so boring and dull. And what was with the manspreading?

To the posters who only saw the first one, check this out too.

This is the first time I've seen RMW in a televised debate.

RMW, apartheid, suicide etc. were all you could come up with to counter the question of how society is to differentiate between genuine transwomen and fakers? Or as a counterargument to the statement that separate prison provision for transwomen is a fair solution? Such spurious and manipulative tactics are unworthy of a barrister.

I know the conversation has moved on a bit since then but

woah, Sarah, AMAZING

and you stay so calm when all that nonsense about trusting institutions (that refuse to be scrutinised) is being spouted.

you were very, very good

I felt that too but only when Robin was talking about wishing to have a woman’s voice

And this is what is so insane about this sham.

These men (and some women) sincerely wishing for something that can never come true.

Its so flimsy and dependent on validation from others.

They can make all their carefully wrought arguments, backed up by bullying, ad homs, information wringing, schmoozing, sycophancy and deviousness.

But what they wish for can never come true.

Wishing to be the opposite sex is a childish wish, like being able to sprout wings and fly like a bird.

It simply cannot happen.

@Spero thank you. Thank you for the sun light. Thank you for your righteous anger (which remains calm and controlled and a tools you use fantastically well). Thank you for being brave enough to stand up and be counted. Thank you for fighting for women.
They have told us for years that it would never happen and now they have finally conceded that it does.
Perhaps next RMW could now concede that our fears weren't 'madness' but justified but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

Completely egoistic and delusional.

I have been thinking about starting a thread on Trans Britain, the book. But I don’t know if I can cope.

All these selfish, low-empathy, devious and smug bastards wittering on is almost unbearable to read and I am not sure if I can handle taking one for the team.

They all have a similar personality type. No moral compass, etc.

Honestly watch the second one it's so much more enlightening!

it would be good if RMW could come to the understanding that women who seek privacy, dignity and safety in single sex spaces aren't 'mad'

maybe at that point he could come to the understanding that he is spoiling the WI meetings for the women at the Institute he attends, and preventing some women from going at all (I know it's a small point in the scheme of things, but it irks me. The members at my institute would hate it if a man attended. it would change the dynamic entirely. we see it when we have a male speaker. We arrange things so they bugger off half way through the meeting so we can still have some women only time).

@BernardBlacksMolluscs she was fantastic wasn't she!