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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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18
dimorphism · 14/04/2023 17:35

I wonder how he plans to cope with KJK running against him- someone who has been demonstrably brave against horrendous male violence?

Presumably there must be a plan, but given they're so dense about the reality of the world and voters in seemingly all ways I'm betting on KJK to be the winner in any PR war.

Ourladycheesusedatum · 14/04/2023 17:37

Sharkyto · 14/04/2023 15:35

Of course it’s a privilege to vote on a single issue. Lots of women believe (know) women don’t have penis’ but they’re more concerned with ensuring women can house and feed their kids, heat their homes, get access to health care etc. Correctly identifying the class of people in which your policies disproportionately disadvantage, doesn’t mean you’re automatically the best party for them, far from it.

And they are most welcome to vote any way they like. I'm not going to try to change their minds by patronising them.

Ourladycheesusedatum · 14/04/2023 17:39

fuzzbearpenguin · 14/04/2023 15:40

@Ourladycheesusedatum re read my post. Where have I said I vote Labour?

And the face that you say 'calling us morons' indicates that you are admitting to voting on a sound bite. Yes, I stand by that being moronic.

Still calling us morons, fine, it's no skin off my nose, and it sure as fuck isnt helping labour.
FWIW I dont care what you vote for, I'm stating that currently with rishi's statement I'm voting Tory.
You go do you.

Floisme · 14/04/2023 17:41

I'm reminded of Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy for some reason. That ended well for Labour.

dimorphism · 14/04/2023 17:43

Floisme · 14/04/2023 17:41

I'm reminded of Gordon Brown and Gillian Duffy for some reason. That ended well for Labour.

Ah yes, the Labour party dismissing real people's concerns and labelling them as bigots has a long history.

Ironically doing this - dismissing whole groups of normal people as bigots - is by far the more bigoted position if you look at the dictionary definition.

Ourladycheesusedatum · 14/04/2023 17:47

They clearly don't realise, unlike a whole bunch of women, dealing with terrible twos, stroppy teens, and useless husbands, that no is, in fact, a complete sentence

Keir - Just Say No

My first laugh of the day.

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 14/04/2023 17:50

teawamutu · 14/04/2023 10:07

This. Over to you, Labour.

I'm a natural Labour voter - but agree with this.
I can't vote for a party who pretend not to know what a woman is... and can't see the harm they are doing with the lie.

Ourladycheesusedatum · 14/04/2023 17:52

dcbc1234 · 14/04/2023 16:48

'I currently wont go for my overdue breast exam because they cannot guarantee no men. If I die of perfectly treatable cancer, that's on them.'
Are you sure, even in Scotland the mammogram leaflet makes it very clear only female staff will be on board the visiting x-ray van. You could just turn around and go home if that were not the case anyway?

My entire letter didnt make it clear, so I called and asked.

Specifically I asked if men of any gender would or could be there. The answer, not sure.

I cant use not sure, it's not a great answer. So until I get guaranteed women only, I'm not wasting my time or money to go. I have lots of things to sort out to go ( like many many women do), so just going and then turning around and walking out is a huge waste of my time. Unless they did weekends. They dont.

Ourladycheesusedatum · 14/04/2023 18:00

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I reckon leader of the country is a whole different ballgame of security and being worried about your safety.

If it is that hes scared, well who needs that person running a country. Who knows if he will find his courage when it matters. Not a chance I want to take.

Sharkyto · 14/04/2023 18:18

Ourladycheesusedatum · 14/04/2023 17:52

My entire letter didnt make it clear, so I called and asked.

Specifically I asked if men of any gender would or could be there. The answer, not sure.

I cant use not sure, it's not a great answer. So until I get guaranteed women only, I'm not wasting my time or money to go. I have lots of things to sort out to go ( like many many women do), so just going and then turning around and walking out is a huge waste of my time. Unless they did weekends. They dont.

They probably thought you were talking about transmen, who need breast exams.

Why would you risk your health over a tiny possibility? If you’re uncomfortable when you arrive, just leave. Plus, I’m sure if they employed a transwoman doing mammograms, you’d have heard about it by now

JanesLittleGirl · 14/04/2023 18:40

Is KS scared? Is there a possibility that he could face reselection by his CLP?

EndIessTea · 14/04/2023 18:43

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fuzzbearpenguin · 14/04/2023 18:47

@Ourladycheesusedatum you clearly aren't getting it. Vote for whoever you like 'you go do you', but I would hope that you have more reason to vote for a party than a soundbite. Again I repeat, and I stand by it, voting based on one soundbite is moronic.
What a none moronic person will do is say 'that sounds great Rishi, so what are the party doing/what have the party done so far to protect women?" Because I can't see that they've done anything so far.

Datun · 14/04/2023 19:04

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I mean you'd think, wouldn't you, that he could make a decent case for saying what Rishi has said.

The very least of which is, you're going to make me look like an absolute bellend when I can't define a woman.

When I have to say, and mark you, it's going to be when everyone is watching, that some women have penises, I, you, and the entire party are going to look like absolute indoctrinated, swivel eyed twats.

And then I'm going to have that gobby blonde showing me up, by splashing that pic of herself covered in soup, and standing up to TRA bullies, across the whole fucking Internet. Plus, she'll make it all about the wimmen and kiddies, ffs.

And the only thing Sunak will have to do is turn to me, with that vaguely smug look on his face, shake his head sorrowfully and say, no Kier, women don't have penises.

Honestly. Persuading your party, even though it's completely TWAW, that this is not a good look, should not be that hard.

I could do it 😁

dcbc1234 · 14/04/2023 19:07

fuzzbearpenguin · 14/04/2023 18:47

@Ourladycheesusedatum you clearly aren't getting it. Vote for whoever you like 'you go do you', but I would hope that you have more reason to vote for a party than a soundbite. Again I repeat, and I stand by it, voting based on one soundbite is moronic.
What a none moronic person will do is say 'that sounds great Rishi, so what are the party doing/what have the party done so far to protect women?" Because I can't see that they've done anything so far.

Well let's see shall we..?
The Tories didn't bring in self-id.

They ordered the Cass Review and announced closure of the Tavistock. Has Starmer said anything yet at all about this NHS scandal of child safeguarding?

They issued Section 35 against Scotland's GRR and promptly sorted out the English prisons Transgender policies at the same time.

They changed the guard at the EHRC - and now we may get the Equalities Act clarified to undo all the deliberate misrepresentation.

They have announced that new guidelines will be issued for schools. - they need to hurry up.

BUT they have done a lot more than Labour/LibDem/SNP/Green to deal with women's and child safeguarding concerns.

They have actually listened and not called voters bigots.
They believe in free speech a lot more than all the other parties put together.
We need free speech to stop Orwellian nightmares becoming reality.
Almost forgot: they do not support IndyRef2 in Scotland.
So they still have my vote.

Ourladycheesusedatum · 14/04/2023 19:11

Sharkyto · 14/04/2023 18:18

They probably thought you were talking about transmen, who need breast exams.

Why would you risk your health over a tiny possibility? If you’re uncomfortable when you arrive, just leave. Plus, I’m sure if they employed a transwoman doing mammograms, you’d have heard about it by now

Well if words had the original meaning there would be no mistake about who is a man would there.

Did you read the bit where going involves sorting out lots of things. Do you think I should call in favours, pay people, organise work to just get there and walk out.

Possibly a better idea, is to guarantee women only.

EndIessTea · 14/04/2023 19:17

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dimorphism · 14/04/2023 19:21

dcbc1234 · 14/04/2023 19:07

Well let's see shall we..?
The Tories didn't bring in self-id.

They ordered the Cass Review and announced closure of the Tavistock. Has Starmer said anything yet at all about this NHS scandal of child safeguarding?

They issued Section 35 against Scotland's GRR and promptly sorted out the English prisons Transgender policies at the same time.

They changed the guard at the EHRC - and now we may get the Equalities Act clarified to undo all the deliberate misrepresentation.

They have announced that new guidelines will be issued for schools. - they need to hurry up.

BUT they have done a lot more than Labour/LibDem/SNP/Green to deal with women's and child safeguarding concerns.

They have actually listened and not called voters bigots.
They believe in free speech a lot more than all the other parties put together.
We need free speech to stop Orwellian nightmares becoming reality.
Almost forgot: they do not support IndyRef2 in Scotland.
So they still have my vote.

When you list out all they HAVE done if you consider countries like Canada, New Zealand, Scotland and Wales (where something like Cass wouldn't even get off the ground I'm sure) then actually you can see they've done rather a lot for women's and children's rights.

ColdMeg · 14/04/2023 19:23

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I used to work within Labour Westminster circles during the Blair and Brown years. At the time, I was a radical. Not hard left, but radical left, so my political world intersected at times with political fanatics. These weren't the old anarchists or communists, I loved to talk at length with them over a pint, even though we would disagree about things, but people who you might describe as Bolsheviks who believed in violent revolution, regardless of the context.

I once told my employer, a Labour minister, that these people were just waiting for a chink that they could exploit to take over the party. They were waiting and they were prepared. They saw Labour as their party that the 'Tories' Blair and Brown had stolen from them.

My employer laughed, and said it would never happen. At the time, of course, it seemed impossible, but I warned him that there was a lot of these people and they did a lot of damage. They strangled legitimate and organic movements in the attempt to harness them to acquire power, and those movements needed to rise and be heard so that democracy worked properly.

He still thought I was being silly.

Then Ed Miliband made a mistake.

At the time, I told my Conservative MP that it wasn't Corbyn that was the problem, but his followers: that they would wreck the political scene with significant repercussions. My MP laughed and shrugged it off: "Corbyn will never win. The British people are far too sensible." He didn't really understand the point I was trying to make: that it wasn't Corbyn per se, but his acolytes.

And look at where we are now. I know their kind. They don't actually care about transgender issues, what they care about is using them as a baseball bat to smash up the system to usher in "the revolution".

And it is the same with the LibDems. They are a weak party. They have few members, and hardly any prospective candidates, so they are ripe for entryism. And that is what has happened.

EndIessTea · 14/04/2023 19:26

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standys · 14/04/2023 19:38

ColdMeg · 14/04/2023 19:23

I used to work within Labour Westminster circles during the Blair and Brown years. At the time, I was a radical. Not hard left, but radical left, so my political world intersected at times with political fanatics. These weren't the old anarchists or communists, I loved to talk at length with them over a pint, even though we would disagree about things, but people who you might describe as Bolsheviks who believed in violent revolution, regardless of the context.

I once told my employer, a Labour minister, that these people were just waiting for a chink that they could exploit to take over the party. They were waiting and they were prepared. They saw Labour as their party that the 'Tories' Blair and Brown had stolen from them.

My employer laughed, and said it would never happen. At the time, of course, it seemed impossible, but I warned him that there was a lot of these people and they did a lot of damage. They strangled legitimate and organic movements in the attempt to harness them to acquire power, and those movements needed to rise and be heard so that democracy worked properly.

He still thought I was being silly.

Then Ed Miliband made a mistake.

At the time, I told my Conservative MP that it wasn't Corbyn that was the problem, but his followers: that they would wreck the political scene with significant repercussions. My MP laughed and shrugged it off: "Corbyn will never win. The British people are far too sensible." He didn't really understand the point I was trying to make: that it wasn't Corbyn per se, but his acolytes.

And look at where we are now. I know their kind. They don't actually care about transgender issues, what they care about is using them as a baseball bat to smash up the system to usher in "the revolution".

And it is the same with the LibDems. They are a weak party. They have few members, and hardly any prospective candidates, so they are ripe for entryism. And that is what has happened.

Yes one of my reasons for resigning from Labour when Corbyn was elected was because I had lived through all the 'Militant Tendency' nonsense in the 1980s. Been there, done that...you have learnt nothing.
Blair had put a good lid on it but it was a pressure cooker underneath and the pay a fiver to vote for our next leader is what made entryism for extremists very easy.
I prefer free speech Tory 'extremists'...I prefer people to tell me what they are really about.

HagoftheNorth · 14/04/2023 20:06

thankyou ColdMeg, that’s really interesting, and Datun (19.04) great post - I really did lol 😆

DemiColon · 14/04/2023 20:26

I don't understand the claim that the Tories have done nothing?

They've consulted about self-id and put a stop to it.
They instituted the Cass review, which is going to be really important in securing other changes.
They have begun to try and get a hold of schools and prisons. These are not directly controlled areas though, and will take time to change. It's going to take commitment on these to get real change eventually.
They have similarly started to try and get Stonewall out of the mix.
They are actually taking steps toward clarifying the legislation and that will also be really important.
They blocked the idiotic Scottish law.

It seems to me that people forget what the real timeline on this has been culturally, in terms of people waking up to what was going on. And some people seem to misunderstand how much direct control government ministers have over various bodies and appointed roles. Many are not directly controlled by MPs as people seem to think.

noblegiraffe · 14/04/2023 20:46

Persuading your party, even though it's completely TWAW, that this is not a good look, should not be that hard.

So the party is "completely TWAW" and yet others on the thread insist that barely anyone actually thinks that TWAW, don't know anyone in real life etc etc.

I'm a bit baffled by the insistence that hardly anyone actually thinks TWAW or at least should be treated as them, when it is also a common thing on this section to state "of course I started out as 'be kind' and then it was reading about x that made me realise there was a problem".

SidewaysOtter · 14/04/2023 20:54

I don't understand the claim that the Tories have done nothing?

Because it suits a narrative that the Tories are cold-hearted arseholes who don't care about anyone but themselves and their mates and are heating their country estates by throwing a few impoverished yokels on the fire. When some of the people I know who are Tory councillors, party members, and voters are pretty decent people who just happen to believe in Tory policies generally or at least that the majority of them are a better option than Labour's. They might not agree with all the policies but if we're all going to wait for a party we agree with 100% I suspect most of us will be waiting a long time.

My MP is a Tory and he's been quite clear on women's rights. He's also been pretty good on other general local issues as well as working with other area MPs/council members of different parties to campaign for a big local issue. He seems a decent sort - that, together with the Sunak administration's stance on the protection of women's rights and that I trust the current administration (Sunak's, not Johnson or Truss) with the economy more than I do Labour, means that he's quite possibly going to get my vote at the next election.